Allies vs Axis Arena: some reflexions

[TheBug]

Originally posted by storch
so bug, if I understand you correctly your idea is to have an arena more like MA but this one with a rolling planeset?

 

Well yes and no.  All the standard settings used in the AvA to date would be used, not sure if that differs from the MA or not?  I also wouldn't be opposed to stricter DAR setups, but sticking with setup parameters in place would be fine.  

The European RPS would be done exactly as it was before, but once the last day is reached it resets and starts over.

The full planeset is more along an Axis versus Allies line.  The full planeset would be implemented through the month based upon service date and playability.  The maps used could be rotated, weekly or monthly whatever keeps interest up.

I guess it does become a bit more like the MA but at least there won't be any Spits vs Spits or Mustangs versus La7s etc.   I really like the format used in the AvA right now though.  Sure everybody has a complaint about this setup or that that is inevitable.  But no matter how much I like it the numbers don't support it.  Having more in the training arena most night is just plain silly.  I really think giving the RPS 6 months to blossom would allow the AvA to really develop the average number of players.

So again increasing the player base would be the goal.  I understand this isn't necessarily a desire for some players already in the AvA and implementing the RPS would basically dismantle what has been known to be the AvA  to this point.  It's just an idea to get more people interested.

[storch]

Bug, does that mean all axis planes as one country and all allied planes in the other?

[Shifty]

I think that may his point Storch. I know it's the point I was trying to make.
It would give some of the planes not flown much in the AVA a chance and might bring in new blood on both sides. Not just Allied.

Maybe they have been included but the I never recall seeing a C205 in the AVA. The 202 , N1K2 , are rare enough. It would be nice to if they got included in the RPS wih all the other Axis , and Allied rides.

[EDIT] All the planes but still Axis vs Allied.

[TheBug]

Originally posted by storch
Bug, does that mean all axis planes as one country and all allied planes in the other?

Yes, so the last day(s) of the RPS would see all planes enabled but split between historical sides.

[TexMurphy]

Kev

The PTO setup we have now is NOT date based. Reason it aint date based is that we dont have the planes to do that. It goes from "roughly early war" to "roughly late war" via "roughly mid war".

Personally I think its a better way of handling it then going by exact dates. As you say not even the spits can be placed well into a dated rps, yet less the jap planes with all the gaps in their lineup.

You would know this if you would have read the thread which came up with the plane set.

For the next RPS we are most likely going to norway, if that map will be ready in time.

Im gonna challange you by creating a thread "Kev´s Norway RPS". Please provide us with a good setup for the norway map.

Tex

[storch]

duh,  never occurred to me.  I could go for that.  I would probably play a lot early to mid then late war might not be fun, but who knows.  I think late war would be the most popular with most players though.

players interested should sound off on this idea.

I say let's give it a whirl for one month then see how it goes.

would you suggest weekly map changes?

[TheBug]

Originally posted by storch
duh,  never occurred to me.  I could go for that.  I would probably play a lot early to mid then late war might not be fun, but who knows.  I think late war would be the most popular with most players though.

players interested should sound off on this idea.

I say let's give it a whirl for one month then see how it goes.

would you suggest weekly map changes?

I personally like weekly map changes, but wouldn't want to press it knowing the efforts needed by staffers to keep the RPS going.  Not sure on the amount of work needed to change a map during the RPS and would hate to assume it is something easily done.

Here is an old post with a VERY rough layout for the planeset.  It still needs a lot of work, meant it just as laying the foundation.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171905

I say give it  a try for 6 months, I really don't think a one month test would be conclusive.  But better than nothing.

[sparow]

Well, I think we waved a little bit along the lines of our debate but we are almost getting there...

Let me try to resume what I read so far:
1 - everyone ignores the maps issue;
2 - AvA will keep low numbers;
3 - one solution to improve AvA would be the introduction of full WW2 RPS;
4 - the best way to do this would be a two sided world (Axis vs Allied);
5 - we could use an old rps plan;
6 - we must accept some gaps until certain models are created;
7 - we must be carefull with maps, not all have born equal...

If you allow me, I would like to contribute to this debate with my own personal experience. I started to fly online in WB back in 1998 - for those who didn't knew that already - then I moved to AH two or three years ago, maybe a little bit more...I only tried WW2 Online for two weeks, free trial.

WB had this Axis vs Allied arena in 2 country mode and RPS. I liked it, I still do. AH had CT, I liked it, I still do. AvA, I like it - I'm a masochist old chap - although I fly Allied planes - those supplied - and never complain, even when I am accused of running away or beeing an alt-monkey (curious, I learned that from observing the tactics generally used by the top scorers in every arena). I left WW2Online because I could not bail out of a stricken plane and had no rear-view mirrors or even a 6:30/5:30 back view. All the rest was bearable and I enjoyed having to take-off from England and ferry a Spitfire, refuel in France and go pick a fight and get shot to pieces while my pc stuttered and I spent all my ammo in one or two passes in a flleeting 109...

Ok, after this moment of pure nostalgia moment, what's my point? My point is: I agree with a full ww2 rps plane set but, for what you have more sacred, don't mix what never was mixed! Please! Or you will kill AvA for good!

Start the war in ETO, Poland, France, go to Norway, Dunkerque, BoB, Mediterranean, Malta, Greece, Crete, launch the Western Front, bombing raids on Germany, go to CBI, move to New-Guinea, start PTO, do whatever is needed to cover all WW2 but keep the Japanese planes in their place, the Italian planes where they belong, and so forth. One week maps, all RPessed, covering the whole possible unfolding of the conflict.

I even suggest that at the monthly meeting bomber squadrons be invited for the only bomber-based actions take place - Ploesti would be better with a filled arena, wouldn't it Storch, instead 4 109's chasing 2 B24's and 2 P51's - instead of expecting much more than fighter furballs.

Maybe the RPS makes it. We must try to whatever we can to bring numbers higher and the scope correct. The only things I dislike in MA are the mixed planes and the totally wreckless mentality of many players.
IMHO, AH is not a game. It's an aircraft combat simulator.

Maybe I am waiting for Tour of Duty to come up. But like many, I wonder if I will be up to it and if it will be up to my expectations...

Please, dear Santa...err...Staff, bring me MTO and Malta. Or Let us have a mini-Pearl Harbour with one CV and zekes fighting P40's and F4F's. Put a big BB fleet in the harbour for Vals and Kates to sink. Don't put radar working, they didn't payed much attention to it in RL either...Don't let the CV come to less than 50 miles off the island. Make our wannabe IJN pilots land their bullet riddled kites aboard their carrier, crash and burn...

Map: one island, one CV, two airfields, sea all around.
Targets: 2 fields and lots of moored ships.

That looks fun!

Cya all tomorrow,

Sparrow

[Redd]

Originally posted by storch
duh,  never occurred to me.  I could go for that.  I would probably play a lot early to mid then late war might not be fun, but who knows.  I think late war would be the most popular with most players though.

players interested should sound off on this idea.

I say let's give it a whirl for one month then see how it goes.

would you suggest weekly map changes?

Full RPS for this arena is a great idea

[Platano]

Indeed a full RPS would be a great idea, but I'm a bit worried about the Me262's......  the 163 i dont care much for becuase of thier pathetic range..but I started to think and an arena with unperked 262's at a base close to the fights is kinda skary....I wouldnt want the AvA to be full of MA'ers that are just there cuz they heard about the "fly till u drop in a 262 cuz thier free marathon"...I am not whining nor complaining, just a bit concerned.

[Shifty]

Splat.

Full RPS should mean just that. Even the 262, and 163 should have their day or days in the sun.

[Platano]

ok

[E25280]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Bit of info Storch -
How much fun would your fights have been with a historical matched Spit v Zeke?
given the Spit would be -
1) Our old Vc
2) Seafire L III (basically naval version of our old Vc)
3) Spit VIII
4) Seafire L IIc, not the very early rare Seafire IIc we have.
5) Using a sub with a low alt performance similar to the LIII, for e.g. the F IX

First, an observation -- you keep referring to planes we don't have in AH.  I have no idea what an "old Vc" would fly like because I doubt I ever flew them, and unless reintroduced, never will, and therefore it can't be added.  Same with your Seafire LIII, and LIIc.  Therefore, although you complain about the design/designers of the arena, it seems your gripe is really with the available plane set.  So, I am not sure why all the hostility -- the AvA crew does the best they can with what they have.  Hard to make a good apple pie if all you have are lemons and sandpaper.

Second, a question -- you obviously know when the various spits were introduced / built / available for service.  Do you have firm information about when those planes would have been available in numbers in the CBI theatre?  I am asking out of complete ignorance.  My impression of the CBI theatre has always been that it was by and large considered a backwater theatre and tended to get the older / borderline obsolete equipment that was no longer useful in the ETO or Central Pacific.  It certainly was true of armor as the M3 Grant/Lee was used in the CBI until the end of the war.  If the same was true of aircraft, then as an example, the older V's may have been more prevailant in the CBI long after the VIII was "available".

It matters little in the current setup with the broad (early, mid, late) categories, but I am still curious.

[Mister Fork]

You guys are missing the entire point of the AvA.  Opinions are that, and we love this arena, this game.

Couple of points.

A) we have a very limited plane-set. We don't have 1000 aircraft to make historical match-ups, we have 73. Not 1000.

B) We often have to sacrifice game-play vs. historical match-ups.

C) All AvA staff are VOLUNTEERS.  Did I mention EVERY staffer is a volunteer? No freebies, no nothing, just Admin status and the responsibilities that come with it.

D) This is a game. As staffers, we attempt to create an environment with issue A trying to keep issue B minimized as possible. We often succeed, we often don't.  But, as VOLUNTEERS (see point C), we try.

Please resume this discussion with points A to D in mind.

And I love you guys.  Don't forget the love.

[TheBug]

A) Four sentences, labelled A through D.

B) Don't forget second chute-they're volunteers

C) Say Love not once..

D) But twice... Love

And presto the arena is fixed!!!  Brilliant!

That's why they pay you the big bucks Mister Fork.  

AvA should be crawling with people tomorrow night.