Cheney sued in CIA identity case

[Flatbar]

Originally posted by Nash


Oh.... and if anyone still wants to claim that Plame was not a covert agent, please provide me with a source. Go ahead and provide it to the CIA while you're at it, because even they seem to be unaware of it.

Yep, the right will do and say anything to try and minimise the negative effect this outing had on our covert efforts to track the movement of nuclear and bio weapons. The fact that a whole network of operatives and informants efforts were neutralised < Bwrester Jennings > doesn't seem to bother the party who says that they can protect America better than the other.

The interesting thing about that lawsuit is not who it names but rather just who are the ten John Does, I guess they don't want to tip thier hand.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Simple question, with a simple one word answer, either positive or negative.

At the time Novak published his column, was Plame a covert agent?

Yes or no?

Answer: NO!

She was obviously a CIA employee who drove every working day on a public route to CIA HQ in Langley. Despite what you saw in all the twenty or so James Bond movies, covert agents DO NOT drive to "spy central" in a convertible in broad daylight. PERIOD.

[Nash]

Not this again.

I'll refer you to this.

Served overseas? Yup.

Served within the last 5 years? None of us know.

I'll bet I know who does, though......

That's right - the CIA itself!

And, wow, it turns out that it was the CIA itself who turned the outing of Plame's identity over to the Justice Department for investigation!

And yer going to tell me that the CIA felt strong enough to turn the outting of one of their agents over to Justice, have a prosecutor go after the VP's Chief of Staff, charge him, resulting in his resignation and a criminal trial....

.... and the CIA itself doesn't know if there was even a basis for a crime?

Mmmkay.

And I don't know how the driving of a convertable comes into this. Maybe there's some memo that both us and Plame are unaware about, whereby agents cannot drive convertables or something?

[john9001]

for nash, flatbar, et all.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/pp/05198/538809.stm

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Simple question, with a simple one word answer, either positive or negative.

At the time Novak published his column, was Plame a covert agent?

Yes or no?

Answer: NO!

She was obviously a CIA employee who drove every working day on a public route to CIA HQ in Langley. Despite what you saw in all the twenty or so James Bond movies, covert agents DO NOT drive to "spy central" in a convertible in broad daylight. PERIOD.

I didn't think covert agents had parking places at the CIA with their name on them, Plame did.

[RedTop]

Originally posted by Nash
Whoops!

Yeah - Bush was not mentioned. Thanks..... My eyes saw Cheney and my mind musta saw Bush.

Thats normal.

[Nash]

Who cares what you or I think regarding convertables or parking spaces?

The CIA says she was covert, the courts agree, and a trial goes on.

I just don't know what more anyone could add to that.

Cars? Spaces?

That might say something to you.... but not to anyone concerned.

[Horn]

Originally posted by weaselsan
I didn't think covert agents had parking places at the CIA with their name on them, Plame did.

Really? I don't recollect names on any of them. There are not even names on the ID badges much less the parking spaces.

Try again.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by john9001
for nash, flatbar, et all.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/pp/05198/538809.stm

They'll just ignore the fact that she was "assigned to a desk since 1997" and was likely "among those outed by Aldrich Ames". Rove, Cheney, and Libby are evil! They're Bush minions!

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Nash
Who cares what you or I think regarding convertables or parking spaces?

The CIA says she was covert, the courts agree, and a trial goes on.

I just don't know what more anyone could add to that.

Cars? Spaces?

That might say something to you.... but not to anyone concerned.

Uh, the CIA says she was covert? Says who? She was riding a desk at HQ in plain public view. There was supposedly a leak. I have yet to see where the CIA specifically states that "at the time Novak published his column, Valerie Plame was a covert agent". Regardless of what the CIA says, or someone there says, if she was assigned to a desk at Langley CIA HQ, she was NOT covert, and couldn't be. And if any person wandering around the gates at Langley could have taken her picture as she drove in with the top down, she was hardly covert.

[Nash]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Rove, Cheney, and Libby are evil! They're Bush minions!

Bwahahh.... Okay buddy.

If reality in the form of the CIA's complaint, the prosecution's assertion and the courts acceptance is too much for you....

.... may I recommend a long walk and some fresh air?

Christ.... Even the defence isn't questioning Plame's status. Why the hell are you?

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Nash
Bwahahh.... Okay buddy.

If reality in the form of the CIA's complaint, the prosecution's assertion and the courts acceptance is too much for you....

.... may I recommend a long walk and some fresh air?

Christ.... Even the defence isn't questioning Plame's status. Why the hell are you?

Could it be because the FACT is that Valerie Plame was a DESK JOCKEY from AT LEAST 1997 on? Yes! I think it is. The truth is she was NOT COVERT. You cannot be covert and be assigned to a desk at CIA HQ, and show up every day in public in broad freaking daylight. How stupid do you have to be to understand that simple fact? If the case is founded on a LIE then there is no case. CIA records plainly state Valerie Plame was a desk jockey from 1997 on because she MAY have been outed by Aldrich Ames as early as 1995.

Do you REALLY think that REAL covert CIA agents wander in and out of CIA HQ Langley in broad daylight on a daily basis? Through the front freaking gate? In full public view? In front of God and everyone? Seriously? Honestly?

Oh, and by the way, Libby is NOT charged with "outing" Valerie Plame. He is charged with "obstruction of justice" because he supposedly lied to the special prosecutor. IF Valerie Plame had actually been covert, then they'd charge Libby with outing her, it's a lot more serious than obstruction of justice. So this is no different than the Martha Stewart case, which was a witch hunt, plane and simple.


With regards to the civil case, Plame and Wilson can CLAIM anything. They don't have to PROVE it to file the case. In a civil action, you don't really even have to prove guilt OR culpability to any reasonable standard. It isn't even CLOSE to "beyond a reasonable doubt".

[Sandman]

I'd say nice dodge, but...

It really wasn't all that.

[Horn]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Uh, the CIA says she was covert? Says who? She was riding a desk at HQ in plain public view. There was supposedly a leak. I have yet to see where the CIA specifically states that "at the time Novak published his column, Valerie Plame was a covert agent". Regardless of what the CIA says, or someone there says, if she was assigned to a desk at Langley CIA HQ, she was NOT covert, and couldn't be. And if any person wandering around the gates at Langley could have taken her picture as she drove in with the top down, she was hardly covert.

Actually, she could be (have been) covert. I'm not taking sides as there is not enough definitve information yet as regards to the "leak"--but an agent can be classified as a NOC while on assignment overseas and still drive to Langley everyday as just a normal worker bee.

It's all going to come down to the when of it.

[Nash]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Could it be because the FACT is that Valerie Plame was a DESK JOCKEY from AT LEAST 1997 on? Yes! I think it is. The truth is she was NOT COVERT. You cannot be covert and be assigned to a desk at CIA HQ, and show up every day in public in broad freaking daylight. How stupid do you have to be to understand that simple fact? If the case is founded on a LIE then there is no case. CIA records plainly state Valerie Plame was a desk jockey from 1997 on because she MAY have been outed by Aldrich Ames as early as 1995.

Do you REALLY think that REAL covert CIA agents wander in and out of CIA HQ Langley in broad daylight on a daily basis? Through the front freaking gate? In full public view? In front of God and everyone? Seriously? Honestly?

Oh, and by the way, Libby is NOT charged with "outing" Valerie Plame. He is charged with "obstruction of justice" because he supposedly lied to the special prosecutor. IF Valerie Plame had actually been covert, then they'd charge Libby with outing her, it's a lot more serious than obstruction of justice. So this is no different than the Martha Stewart case, which was a witch hunt, plane and simple.


With regards to the civil case, Plame and Wilson can CLAIM anything. They don't have to PROVE it to file the case. In a civil action, you don't really even have to prove guilt OR culpability to any reasonable standard. It isn't even CLOSE to "beyond a reasonable doubt".

I think there can be a serious psychological study of this board - both fascinating and informative - of the hows and whys of some people's absolute detachment from and refusal to face reality... no matter how it's presented to them.

Again, Capt.

The CIA says she was covert. It was they who filed the complaint. It wasn't disputed by the courts. The defence itself isn't disputing it. Nobody is.

Except you.

What's going on in your head?