Author Topic: israel in war (Read 6244 times)

Angus · « **Reply #240 on:** July 21, 2006, 01:16:11 PM »

To my utter surprize, I find myself rather on line with Lazs.
Now the things are getting clearer. While I disagree with Lazs that the Lebanese are "allowing" the Hizbollah to launch rockets etc, - they at least are:
1. Sloppy in preventing it.
2. Taking their side when the stuff goes sour.

This can be deeper than it seems, and perhaps fuelled by Israeli hating outsiders, like Iran. Because there is no way that the Lebanese army can take on the Israelis. On a war scale, the Israelis are routing them in a matter of days..unless....something else.

While the Israelis are today causing the most casualties, they are responding to a sticky threat and terrorism who's planners dont have any respect for what is generally referred to as "collateral damage".

Well, it can be described in many ways, but although "terrorism" and "collateral damage" are both gritty concepts, there is still a long way between them.

Angus · « **Reply #241 on:** July 21, 2006, 01:18:37 PM »

Oh, from Lazs:
"How would you take care of the hez-ebola virus if you were Israel? They are firing rockets and making cross border raids and hiding in the midst of a very willing population of a country that encourages them to do whatever they want... even gives them political power."

A very well put question.

lukster · « **Reply #242 on:** July 21, 2006, 01:33:46 PM »

Wonder what Hezbollah means when they say they'll have some surprises for Israel? Chemical weapons?

lazs2 · « **Reply #243 on:** July 21, 2006, 01:49:45 PM »

I will go further..... I will wager that if the lebonese government denounced the terrorist hez-ebola virus to the world and swore that they would do everything to try to stop the terrorists from attacking a soveriengn nation of Israel...

If they allowed the jews to help them and work with them to put an end to the ebolas.....

My firm belief is that the jews would instantly stop targeting hez-ebloa virus centers and do some surgical work with the legitimate lebonese government.

If the lebonese refuse to do so then one can only assume that they are working in concert with the virus.

lazs

Maverick · « **Reply #244 on:** July 21, 2006, 02:01:41 PM »

Angus,

I have to agree with Laz about the Lebonese military allowing hezbolah to operate at will in their country.

To illustrate. If there was a radical militant group in the US (and there are several, ie. aryan nation for one and other hate nutjobs) that went to the area near the border of Mexico and started firing rockets into Mexico, the US govt. would be immediately reacting to shut this down. Hell look at the reaction to the minutemen just doing patroling of the border and they didn't have rockets to fire.

In this case hezboloah seems to be able to operate at will inside lebonon and there aren't even any signs the Lebonese military is even patroling their own territory to look for them. I don't think anyone can deny there have been hundreds of rockets fired from Lebanon into Isreal and the folks taking credit for it are the hezbolah. If the lebonese govt. gave a rats posterior about stopping this why are they not even patroling their own territory and doing something to stop it. Now I have seen news reports that they will come into the conflict on the side of hezbolah if Isreal attacks in force. Sounds like tacit support if not direct support to me.

lazs2 · « **Reply #245 on:** July 21, 2006, 02:22:10 PM »

exactly mav.... Imagine now if you will that the aryan brotherhood was firing missles into mexico and...

That there were a high percentage of AB's in congress and in political power. It would be pretty hard to divorce ourselves from their actions would it not? How do you think the world would react to that happening here?

And... for nelson.... I would not allow the AB to launch from my house... I would move if they did or if their headquarters were 3 houses down.

lazs

Angus · « **Reply #246 on:** July 21, 2006, 02:32:57 PM »

Nononono..you'd gun them Lazs

Anyway, as we disagree many times, I agree mostly with you Lazs and Mav. But please put that Nelson to Nilsen will you, - you'd hate it if it went to "Mavis" and "Lazy" from his hand, and there'd be the skuzzy wand

Thrawn · « **Reply #247 on:** July 21, 2006, 03:37:33 PM »

I'm not sure that the Lebanonese military could effectively patrol southern Lebanon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Lebanon_Army

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2006/060303-lebanon-military.htm

Thrawn · « **Reply #248 on:** July 21, 2006, 03:45:23 PM »

Okay, they probably could.

"The Lebanese army has grown from 35,000 to 70,000 since the end of Lebanon's 1975-90 civil war, far outnumbering Hezbollah's estimated 6,000 fighters. But its troops lack guerrilla battle experience and religious zeal. The army has no fixed wing aircraft and its helicopters are equipped only with machine guns."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4054122.html

lazs2 · « **Reply #249 on:** July 22, 2006, 09:14:09 AM »

angus.. have you seen how my spelling is? nelson is just eaisr.

I am glad we agree on this. It would not matter tho. The jews are our friends and I admire em. They are a bit of sanity ihn a region that I find to be filled with barbaric a holes.

lazs

-tronski- · « **Reply #250 on:** July 23, 2006, 02:46:31 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Elfie
Yep, Israel intends to kill civilians, thats why they dropped leaflets warning them to leave.

If you are warned to leave an area because danger, life threatening danger.....is imminent, and you choose to NOT leave and you get hurt, or even deaded....who's fault is that? Yours and yours alone, no one elses.

Depends if you tell the civilians to leave or else near Marwaheen, and then the escaping car convoy is attacked by an Isreali F16 killing 20+

Tronsky

Elfie · « **Reply #251 on:** July 23, 2006, 04:40:41 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by -tronski-
Depends if you tell the civilians to leave or else near Marwaheen, and then the escaping car convoy is attacked by an Isreali F16 killing 20+

Tronsky

Second paragraph and the link tells the story as we know it so far. Civilians were told to leave, but they were not attacked as they fled Marwaheen. Read on.

Already been covered in another post:

Quote

This one is safe, no gory pictures.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5184122.stm

So far only one side of the story has been told here. Did those Israeli pilots attack those vehicles knowing they held civilians? Had that area been deemed clear of civilians and declared a *free fire zone* because they thought all the civilians were gone? We dont know the answers to any of those questions or many others yet.

You make it sound like as soon as the Lebanese left their homes and were peacefully leaving that the Israelis attacked them. That isnt what happened at all. They were told to leave and were also told they only had hours to do so. They left and headed for the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon base for shelter and were refused entry because the UN couldnt confirm that they were ordered to leave their homes. At some point after leaving the UN base civilian vehicles were attacked by Israeli air units. I have seen reports of either an F-16 or a helicopter being the attacker.

I'm sure we'll hear more in the coming days. If that Israeli pilot(s) is/are guilty of deliberately attacking civilians I'm sure Israel will pursue punishment, they want to be the good guys in this fight. For the moment alot of us still feel they are. The UN also shares some of the blame for this tragedy because of their refusal to allow those people in.

~Caligula~ · « **Reply #252 on:** July 23, 2006, 09:44:12 AM »

i just heard on tv that it cost a cab ride $500 in lebanon....here people get free hotel rooms, if they come to tel-aviv from the north..

lazs2 · « **Reply #253 on:** July 23, 2006, 09:48:34 AM »

caligula... best of luck to you and yours. Know that I and most Americans support you and your people in their struggle and think that you are doing the right thing.

I admire your peoples courage.

lazs

~Caligula~ · « **Reply #254 on:** July 23, 2006, 09:51:24 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
caligula... best of luck to you and yours. Know that I and most Americans support you and your people in their struggle and think that you are doing the right thing.

I admire your peoples courage.

lazs

thank you,it is much appreciated