Author Topic: This week's most interesting comment from my Japanese Fiancee (Read 3849 times)

toon · « **Reply #45 on:** July 18, 2006, 08:50:46 AM »

bombardy, let it go my friend.or the next sound you may hear will be battery-operated.

Meatwad · « **Reply #46 on:** July 18, 2006, 08:55:38 AM »

You should ask her about Pearl Harbor and see what she says

Rolex · « **Reply #47 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:51:23 AM »

I don't think many girls have as good of an understanding of war history as they do about shoes.

It's pretty interesting to still see people say that Japan has never apologized. Japan has apologized over and over. Prime ministers and 2 emperors have apologized over 40 times. If you don't believe me, let me know and I will post every one of them here. It will look like a Ripsnort post...

Where are all the apologies from the confederates for the Civil War? Where are all the apologies from the British from their colonizations? Where are all the apologies from the French, Dutch and Spanish colonizations? Where are all the apologies from Norway and Italy? Where are all the apologies for US slavery and Indian wars? Where are all of these other apologies?

China and Korean politicians have a domestic political purpose in keeping the wounds alive.

No, the Japanese do not have a shrine honoring the leaders executed for war crimes. They have a shrine for all Japanese war dead from all wars. In the Shinto religion, those who die are no longer judged. They may be judged in life and be executed, but they have paid the price for the deeds in their life. In death, they are just dead.

What exactly have the last several generations of Japanese or Germans done in the past 60 years to deserve this never ending scorn? Who of you have they harmed or attacked? Japanese have provided hundreds of billions of dollars of aid to countries around the world and is the 2nd largest contributor of aid for the last 5 decades.

They learned their lesson.

AutoPilot · « **Reply #48 on:** July 18, 2006, 11:30:34 AM »

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Where are all the apologies from the confederates for the Civil War?

Uh ......they aren't trying too sell their cars here either.

Bombardy · « **Reply #49 on:** July 18, 2006, 12:47:42 PM »

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Originally posted by Stoney74
I don't really give much creditability to anything that comes out of McNamara's mouth. Ask Lemay what he thought.

Two books I'd recommend--"War Without Mercy" (can't remember the author), and "Thank God For The Atom Bomb" by Paul Fussel.

According to Macnamara, Lemay said "if we had lost the war, we would be tried as war criminals"

even Lemay was aware that there is a another side to the "justification" coin.

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #50 on:** July 18, 2006, 12:53:10 PM »

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Originally posted by Saxman
I have a bit of a problem with this statement. This is exactly the sort of thing the Japanese (at least, the Japanese GOVERMENT) has PROBLEMS doing. Remember the whole flap last year or so about textbooks glossing over what Japan did in China and the Koreas? IIRC there's never even been an official apology until RECENTLY.

I think Rolex covered most of your post pretty well, but I'll just say here that there is a big lack of awareness on the part of most Americans just how much or how little the Japanese have acknowledged anything. Even if you were right, there is a big difference between official govt. positions on things and the average citizen's perspective. Also, the "flap" about the textbooks was about NEW textbooks that would gloss over some of the more horrible aspects rather than going into detail, flogging themselves and their ancestors with the whip of guilt as they have done for 3 generations now. Some of them believe they have done their penance, and there is no need to continue to force their children to bow their heads in shame from the time they begin school for something their great-grandparents did. I personally agree.

Rather typical of us Americans, we rely on what we see on the news to tell us what goes on around the world, when that's really not a good indicator of world events at all. Not only that, most Americans tend to see other countries and their values through eyes prejudiced by personal views, rather than trying to understand the those of the culture they are studying. I have been, and am still just as guilty of it as anyone else. It's something I have to work to overcome.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #51 on:** July 18, 2006, 01:08:05 PM »

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Originally posted by Bombardy
According to Macnamara, Lemay said "if we had lost the war, we would be tried as war criminals"

even Lemay was aware that there is a another side to the "justification" coin.

Like the guy said, I'd give zero credibility to anything that comes out of McNamara's mouth.

One more thing. No one tries the winner of a war for war crimes, everyone tries the losers. So what LeMay said was just being realistic, not an acknowledgement of guilt.

By 1943, there were any number of possible outcomes for Japan, none of them good. They lost, most of them (those who knew strategy) knew they had lost before they attacked Pearl Harbor. The only thing to be decided was how badly they'd get mauled. The longer Japan fought, and the more ferociously they fought, the worse they'd get mauled.

The truth is, compared to what might have happened, the atomic bombs, despite their horrifying results, were close to merciful. Imagine the destruction of Japan had there been a reasonably long period of bombardment leading up to an invasion. With the B-29s dropping incendiaries by the ton on Japanese cities, Japan would have been a smoldering ruin with millions dead and millions homeless by November, even at the rate the bombing was going in mid 1945. No doubt, the bombing campaign would have been ramped up dramatically in preperation for the invasion.

War is horrible, it is ugly, it is the greatest atrocity man commits on his fellow man. No one escapes war unscathed, it touches everyone living, those it kills, and those yet to be born. if truth is the first casualty of war, civilians are the second, and it is a close race, nearer a tie.

Charge · « **Reply #52 on:** July 18, 2006, 01:29:04 PM »

Poor girl, she obviously has made a mistake...

-C+

Bombardy · « **Reply #53 on:** July 18, 2006, 02:06:49 PM »

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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Like the guy said, I'd give zero credibility to anything that comes out of McNamara's mouth.

I am curious, why?

AutoPilot · « **Reply #54 on:** July 18, 2006, 02:57:18 PM »

You can say whatever you want about the jap government but after reading this it doesn't matter to me i say they got what they deserve and if they want they can get it again.

http://www.battlingbastardsbataan.com/dbh.htm

I strongly urge everyone to read the entire story all the way through.

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #55 on:** July 18, 2006, 04:25:52 PM »

So you blame people who are mostly now anywhere from 2 to as much as 4 generations removed from those actions? Give it up man. Bad things happen sometimes in a war. My grandfather slogged through the jungles in the Philippines fighting the Japanese, and served for a brief time with the army occupying Japan after the war. He certainly never taught us or his kids to hate the Japanese. Just the opposite. I've seen Pearl Harbor survivors meet survivors from the Japanese attack force here on Pearl Harbor Day, and shake hands.

I dont see why they can get past something that happened 60 years ago and realize that today is a new day with new people, but you for some reason cant. Do you have some personal grudge or are you just trolling?

Saxman · « **Reply #56 on:** July 18, 2006, 04:47:48 PM »

The problem is the kind of "burying" that's going on easily leads to apathy, or worse, the potential for repetition.

AutoPilot · « **Reply #57 on:** July 18, 2006, 04:52:28 PM »

Have you ever been shot at in Combat, in real life?

Did you read the whole story?

That guy went too japan( after being talked into going) too confront his past and finally put it behind him.He confronts the one jap peacefully and the little jap won't even look him in the eye or admit to what he did.

Thats just how i feel and you don't have too agree or disagree with it.

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #58 on:** July 18, 2006, 05:46:38 PM »

Yes I've been shot at. Combat? No. I've never been in any branch of the service. I suppose if someone shoots at you and you shoot back, it could be called combat, but I'm not going to play semantics games.

I read the story. I fully understand why the man in it would feel the way he did. He obviously doesnt lump all Japanese into one group either, or he wouldnt have been there doing the story for their news program in the first place.

Are there some racist Japanese? Sure there are. Are there some really ignorant people living on those islands? Most definitely. I could say the same about us in America, or in any other country in the world. How does that make them different?

You are certainly welcome to your opinion on the matter. All I'm saying is, there's more to it than just one perspective.

People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. And these days, we all live in glass houses.

Rolex · « **Reply #59 on:** July 18, 2006, 05:54:35 PM »

This will be my last post in this topic.

I think you, Autopilot, need to read the story again.

All soldiers in all wars do brutal acts to their enemies and civilians. Roman, Greek, British, American, Canadian, Russian, German, Australian, Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, Serbian, Croatian, Israeli - they have all done it.

As the story you linked to points out, the Japanese making the documentary years after the war and the descendants and relatives of the old soldiers showed no ill will toward the former POW or Americans as a whole. Even the writer appreciated the hospitality and concern they showed for him.

You are the one continuing the hatred. And you were not even there. Your use of the offensive slang "Japs" says more about you than anything you write.