Author Topic: US judge rules wiretaps illegal (Read 4268 times)

lazs2 · « **Reply #120 on:** August 23, 2006, 02:04:14 PM »

maniac... what is going on in that vid? is that U.S. soldiers raiding a party?

lazs

Maniac · « **Reply #121 on:** August 23, 2006, 02:07:28 PM »

I only got the information you get from the comments of the vid. Some say US soldiers, some say National guard, some say SWAT.

They raided an outdoor rave party. With helicopters and all.

Edit : SWAT apparantly http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Dance_party_broken_up_by_police_in_Utah%2C_USA

lazs2 · « **Reply #122 on:** August 23, 2006, 02:11:01 PM »

they had masks on....

Were they afraid that if their identities were known that crazed rave attenders would hunt them and their families down like dogs?

Why the masks eagler? They allmost have to be police... we can't have U.S. military breaking up parties can we?

can we?

are we that far gone?

lazs

Gunthr · « **Reply #123 on:** August 23, 2006, 03:39:13 PM »

Americans are currently undecided whether or not to make exceptions to some of our civil liberties in order to detect and stop Islamists from attacking us. I think both sides of the argument have their points, and for now, it will be settled in the courts.

It is a slippery slope to allow the government extra powers, but on the other hand, there is no question that we are dealing with enemies that are not hampered, as we are, in having an open society, and no question that being able to tap suspect communications without warrants is an effective tool.

I predict that if the Islamists have another large success in the USA, the more people will expect the government to do anything it can to protect us. I further predict that the longer we are free from Islamist attacks in this country, the fewer citizens there will be who will be willing to give the government extraordinary powers.

To me, it is a teeter-toter affair, and the country is in an uncomfortable balancing act for the moment.

Sandman · « **Reply #124 on:** August 23, 2006, 03:49:49 PM »

The solution is simple. Follow the law and get a warrant.

Maniac · « **Reply #125 on:** August 23, 2006, 03:56:53 PM »

How many have died in total, from terrorist attacks on American soil?

Sandman · « **Reply #126 on:** August 23, 2006, 03:59:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Maniac
How many have died in total, from terrorist attacks on American soil?

I'm guessing 4,000 or so in the last few decades.

Gunthr · « **Reply #127 on:** August 23, 2006, 04:00:04 PM »

re: masks

You will always see secret informants and undercover officers in masks on raids. This is to conceal their identity from those on the scene so that they are not rendered ineffective, or "used up" in thier ability to make buys, or to surveil, or to infiltrate, etc later on.

Other uses for masks and sometimes helmets/faceshields by different agencies are to intimidate as well as protect.

In the Miami FTAA protest of 2003, illegal protesters who were in violation of their permit to assemble by entering an area they were not allowed in, and by lobbing tear gas at the police suddenly faced a paramilitary group of police, a field force - thousands of "soldiers" all dressed in full black body armor and gas masks, marching in unison, and banging thier batons on thier shields in rythm, chanting, "BACK...BACK...BACK...BACK.." They were so effective - magnificently trained - it was a beautiful thing to see. So ntimidation is properly used for crowd control and for raids. It can be argued that it saves lives by ending the resistance that much quicker.

.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #128 on:** August 23, 2006, 04:54:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sandman
I'm guessing 4,000 or so in the last few decades.

Yeah we have had one major attack from outside and one from withen, and thats enough for people to be willing to give the government even more power to "protect us".

They have not even closed the whoopee border. How is the BS patriot act(wouldnt the founding fathers love that name) going to stop some terrorist from comming in from mexico with an NBC weapon?

Laz is right Terror is a government run industry. Far more Americans die every year in trafic accidents then due to terror, even counting the American Soldiers dying in Iraq.

When is the war on Trafic accidents, 5 gallon buckets, stairs, Ice, floods hurricane and tornadoes going to come? Many of those have prollly killed more Americans then terror.

Terror does not scare me in the least, the thoughts of my rights, the rights that Americans died securing are being sold down the river over some bull**** threat scares me.

Eagler · « **Reply #129 on:** August 23, 2006, 05:02:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GtoRA2
Far more Americans die every year in trafic accidents then due to terror, even counting the American Soldiers dying in Iraq.

traffic deaths do not affect the economy

heck, they don't have to kill anybody for the intended affect ... just have a couple of empty movie theaters and malls blow sky high and then have some towel head appear on Al Jazeera and mumble a couple of threatening statements and watch oil go up and the stock market go down..
absolute protection is impossible but something has to be done if nothing more than an after the fact cya from the top down

Shuckins · « **Reply #130 on:** August 23, 2006, 05:16:27 PM »

"...some bull**** threat..."

Glad to see that you're keeping all this in the proper perspective.

Toad · « **Reply #131 on:** August 23, 2006, 05:22:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thrawn
Yeager, Toad.

I wasn't aware that the US President trying to see how much power he could steal and how many Constitutional rights he could erode was how the US was supposed to work.

You're dancing faster than the music.

The President may well have tried to stretch the power of the Executive Branch. There's no Constitutional ban against the Executive trying new things to meet new threats.

However, there IS a check and balance system.

It's working just the way it is supposed to work.

The Executive Branch was questioned on it's move in court, just the way it is supposed to work. It lost and the power reach has been curtailed.

The Executive Branch is now appealing that decision, again, just the way it is supposed to work.

I suppose we could go with tanks in the streets like a few other countries have done but I like our Founders' plan a bit better.

Edbert1 · « **Reply #132 on:** August 23, 2006, 05:23:52 PM »

Did any of you guys see the video where federal police were going into occupied non-flooded homes in NO after Katrina and confiscating the weapons of the residents? No warrants, no due-process, no recourse, no choices. Just "a hand them over or go to jail free" card.

I'll wager I can find the video if needed. Being that I don't live in a blue metropolis I fear the federal alphabet soup guys far more than I fear the diaper-headed whackos. I fear them because they have the support of those soccer-moms and blue metropolis sheeple.

ETA: Since I knew it would be asked for sooner or later from those who say it didn't/can't/wont happen here...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-368034430006732400&q=%22new+orleans%22+katrina+firearms&hl=en

Sandman · « **Reply #133 on:** August 23, 2006, 05:29:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Edbert1
Did any of you guys see the video where federal police were going into occupied non-flooded homes in NO after Katrina and confiscating the weapons of the residents? No warrants, no due-process, no recourse, no choices. Just "a hand them over or go to jail free" card.

I heard about it. They were wrong.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #134 on:** August 23, 2006, 05:35:20 PM »

Nice shots shuckins. How do those pictures of the tragic attack on our nation prove anything?

Did more die do to terror then died on roads in 2001?

When it is a bigger threat to me, then dying do to some ****** in a car not paying attention, I might worry about it.

I still won't want a bigger government to stop it. But maybe safety is more important then freedom to you.

I think I am keeping it in perspective, I am not crying for mommy(the government) to protect me from all evils at the cost of freedom.