New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates

[Overlag]

Originally posted by Guppy35

Late War is the old MA.  Same thing.  Every third line on country  was "MISSION UP!".  

what the hell is wrong with team work these days?

[Edbert]

Originally posted by AKWarp
It's boring to play when only 50 or so are in, or 150 at best.  150 might be OK if there were only two teams, but there aren't.

The problem is not as simple as the numbers. I can tell you I've had great fun and fantastic fights with as few as 50 in arena. All it takes to have fun is guys who are willing to fight. If you have 150 folks in one of these small maps and cannot find a fun fight then you cannot blame HTC, AH, or any management decision. The blame for that rests solely on the players who wont fight.

Fun fights were sometimes hard to find with 500+ players on. You could look at the map and clrearly see four or five hordes all taking bases and avoiding each other. The new arena caps and the use of small maps make it hard to get a group of 40 people together to attack any one base AND make it very hard for multiple "attack forces" (I still call any group of friendlies over 15 within icon range a horde) to avoid each other.

[4510]

Originally posted by Edbert

What was wrong with the game is too complicated to boil down concisely into a sound bite for you but it had mainly to do with maps and squads that were too large for the existing strat mechanics to deal with.


Also I should add...HTC has made it clear that they too recognized the game was in need of a fix, so this is not the opinion only of oldtimers and the BKs.

Well.. when you have a game design that rewards map resetting....
seems a bit ironic that one then laments the tactics that are most effective at resetting a map.   I am not a land grab proponent.  I've disliked the real estate agent nature of AH for a long time.  But ... who designed the game?

Perhaps if there were more rewards for the country that shot down the most aircraft or had the best K/D or things of such nature... shifting the bragging right emphasis from land grab it might change.

Also the other two complaints I hear from my peer group (the guys that have flown for over 10 years) is the HO and Cherry Pick.

Flew in the EW for two nights, and trust me... the HO is alive and well as is the Cherry Pick.

I know we are sorting through the settings and difficulties, but I can't help but echo a lot of comments here.  Many of the problems we are experiencing (ENY, FGs not working, etc) are just simply shoddy implementation.  

As for the BKs and if this was their idea...  who cares!

[Edbert]

Originally posted by 4510
Well I am glad that I am being offered the opportunity to pay for the right to be part of the development team !:(

Why look at this as a negative? AH has been under continual development for over nine years, and online for over seven. Name for me any currently active game of any genre that can say the same. The ~$0.50 per day this costs is nothing, what would you do with all that loot if you didn't play, buy a coke?

Here's to hoping we all get to be part of it for another decade, I expect Dale will want to retire by then anyway.

[Sketch]

Originally posted by 4510
Perhaps if there were more rewards for the country that shot down the most aircraft or had the best K/D or things of such nature... shifting the bragging right emphasis from land grab it might change.

This might bring into the fact no one would want to fight though... just hit and run like the good ol' cherry pickers.  Might work and I like the idea, as we would get more rewards for the win, but then you have the score-mongers who want to pad thier precious score.

Originally posted by 4510
Also the other two complaints I hear from my peer group (the guys that have flown for over 10 years) is the HO and Cherry Pick.

Flew in the EW for two nights, and trust me... the HO is alive and well as is the Cherry Pick.

Once again, your right here Soup! Was in an F4U-1 and came across three of the best at it: Spit 16, Lgay-7 & Niki.... I dive down and roll up and there they are, all three of them with guns a blazzing for a HO shot at me. Man I must be better in that -1 than I thought!
The same crap no matter where you go, they perk the Tiffie in the Mid-War but not the La-7, Spit 16 or Niki? WTF!    Makes no sense to me, but it is not my game nor did I design it.  I just live with it and if I have to... I just HO back!

Originally posted by 4510
As for the BKs and if this was their idea...  who cares! [/B]

I didn't know the Burger King's played this game!  So do they have to have it 'Their Way'

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Mugzeee
Well sir...No there isnt a technical issue.  

 
because in HTCs opinion...we must not like it. Otherwise why would we even be discussing it here on this thread.

Well considering half of this BBS if full of whines from players crying how FUBARed the game play was in the MA, maybe HiTech was responding to community whines...err I mean crying..errr demands to do something.  

I guess some just can't live without their La7s and the security blanket of the hord.


ack-ack

[The Fugitive]

Originally posted by 68Ripper
All right Mr brilliance, you sound like the type of person that someone could sell a car to, take your money and then tell you oh by the way this is just a proto type there may be a few bugs like the transmission may fall out or the engine may quit on you but hey you bought it and we will watch and see how your new purchase turns out. And by the way your Old car was just smashed in our compactor.

Change is good but you should never put a untested product out to your customer base. Just doesn't make sense. People have concerns about the game most have been playing for years. And just like you they have a right to voice those concerns.

Ripper, acording to that analogy "they are forcing you to buy that car" HTC isn't forcing you to fly, you can quit or leave at any time.

...oh and btw, why don't you call Ford, Chevy, or Dodge and let them know YOU don't like the head lights they are using on there cars, and if they don't change them right away, your not going to buy any more cars!!!  Im sure they will jump right to it for you.

[lazs2]

"what is wrong with teamwork"

It killed gameplay.    That's what's wrong with it...  bear with me here..

What is teamwork?  On a team it is working together granted but.. it is against other teams if it is to be a game.

Our "teamwork" consisted of 50 ant like drones all steamrolling undefended or... at best... defended by diverse individuals all playing for different reasons...    that is not a game... That is griefing on a grand scale... slums.

If everyone formed up teams and fought each other then you would have a war... we don't have that...  you have many people with many different ways to have fun.... all being steamrolled by a group of 50 here and 50 there with no real "game" involved..  no competion and no fun for anyone but the steamrollers..

The solution?  the steamrollers say... just form your own mega squads and stop us...  That is the problem not the solution...  oddly as it sounds.. the mega squads, while organized and tight... were the minoritiy... only a fraction of the player base wanted to play that way.

The result?   they had no opposition that mattered and they simply ruined the gameplay.. they rolled over fields that no one cared to bother to defend against them or be vulched at..

The ack is useless against late war planes so...all the newbies and griefers and hordes flew em....  you could runway dive with impunity.. that was slum behavior.... never learning to fight... these same people... when forced to defend themselves resorted to the HO... slum behavior...  Never haveing a chance at a kill.... any lone red was swarmed by at least 6-10 green all firing over each others shoulders and shooting the plane even after there were no wings on it to steal it from their other skilless and hungry for a kill teamates... slum behavior.

It is individualism that was threatened... join the whorde or die or don't have fun.   If we catch you sneaking off and having fun we will bomb your FH... now... those who bragged about that are crying like babies with "tremling fingers" and threatening to quit?  

I have even seen one guy say that he can no longer kill La7's and spit 16's with his hurri one?   LOL   let's all be honest here.... how many of you guys reading this seen hurri ones in the old MA?

How can HT develop new planes if all you will fly is the runway diving late war monster cause it is the only viable plane?

Look at the EW.... it is full of planes that no one ever used and the guys are having a blast flying em... as more are added.. it will be even more fun.

There will be more variety in the EW of actual planes seen than there ever was in the old MA...allmost is now.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[kudzu]

It's about what you perceive as future market and (potential) growth is it?So what about the people that brought you to this stage? Remember us? An old politician once said "I'm staying with the one that brought me to the dance" in referrerance to who elected them and a party change..." Now, if what you perceive as "best for the game" marginalizes the "core" of your clientele...how does that improve anything? and the effects word of mouth concerning the changes AHII is going through is impacting those droves you expect to show up.

Change is inevitiable...but radical change often brings about such turmoil and dissatisfaction...such are humans and cattle as we have been referred to. I don't know whether to applaude or be insulted at the "herding" comment, but since you are appearing to approach this scientifically...so shall I.

In theory, what you are attempting mighyt, in the long run, be good for the game. But it wouldn't have hurt to give us a heads up and "break it to us slowly" as the man said. Cognitive dissonance aside...the game doesn't support the relatively few members you currently have (remeber the dance?) and why not scale back your plans for a phase-in? I abhor the hordes as much as anyone and applaude the ghetto comment as well, but the extreme situation of finding 15 people in an arena isn't acceptable either.

Many of us spend quite a few hours on the game as you know...and this kind of backlash just seems logicial--surely it was discussed.

Please consider scaling back your grandiose plans to levels that current members can live with and phase in the changes.

What it really boils down to is the money it cost you to ramp up for this change and you wanted to minimize that, that makes good business sense. But like I said, if it marginalizes your core--how logical is that?

Just my 3 cents marked up for inflation and the time it took to try and be objective about something that deeply supercedes into the subjective. I LOVE THIS GAME AND YOU WENT AND BROKE IT. There...I fell better. I suppose I will move along to the feeder yard and wait for the guy with the baseball bat. Oh wait..he's already here.

Please reconsider these changes--scale back to half and phase in this tremendous growth when the rest of the world catches on to the BEST flight sim game ever. Anything else defies logic. A dialogue with your customers wouldn't have hurt you--nor would waiting and doing it on a gradual basis. Please consider it.

Respectfully Numb,

Kudzu31

CO 308th FG/31st Bomber Barons





cattle

[Laurie]

Originally posted by Lusche
Sorry, but for me there is currently too much space.
I was playin on & off the whole day. Was desperatly looking for any kind of bigger battles we used to have.

But thatīs hard to find when there are no more 150 but only about 40 or much even less people in an arena. Only now, at 11pm CET (time zone I am living) EA is getting about 150 players.

While I see many ways lots of other minor shortcomings could & will be corrected in near future, this is a real issue to me.

Change itself may be necessary, and i can surely adapt and make compromises. Heck, I donīt like that "historical" planeset at all, but I could live with it for sure.

But the fights I did enjoy so much are not there anymore. Only small scale dogfights or even constant milkruns.

And I simply canīt see how that can be fixed without getting rid of the split arenas concept , because I am sure the will be no sudden rise in player numbers at non-us times.

As I stated before: I guess I am simply out of luck here.

you hit the nail on the head buddy, this stinks now, i just fly around bored to death. sadly this is starting to cause a dvision between players and squads. high tech please get sumthing sorted to suit a majority please!,i live in england so the numbers in arenas suck. back to the tried and tested i say.

laurei--hulse2

[airspro]

I waited a few days to give it a chance . Seems better now . How's that ?

I can fly in Late War1 now with like minded people . Thanks for fixing that part Seems alot of new players already , that's good for u and for us players .
 

I like the .f and .p works good so far .

[Eagler]

AH has never been better
then again 500 in a room with half of them in la7s and spit16s with 3/4's of them spraying and praying was never my idea of fun
thanks again for the changes HT!!

[4510]

Originally posted by lazs2
"
Look at the EW.... it is full of planes that no one ever used and the guys are having a blast flying em... as more are added.. it will be even more fun.

There will be more variety in the EW of actual planes seen than there ever was in the old MA...allmost is now.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

Ah, but as you point out in all that I snipped.... we had one extreme before... we are close to the opposite extreme now.  The initial change this week didn't even come close to being in the middle.  

Now last night... had there been one LW with a higher cap... the larger number of flyers would have been in there.  EW wasn't full, LW 1 was with spillage into LW2.

So raise the limit on LW1... apparently we can leave EW where it is as it wasn't full.  Both ends of the discussion will have the game experience they are comfortable with and we move forward.  That is of course if you are interested in a middle ground that appeals to all types of flyers.

[lazs2]

4510... yep... soon HTC will treat us all like numbers if this keeps up...


I don't get your point?   There were times when EW was full and the I couldn't get on... we just spilled over to the mid war.  

The late war is now simply the old MA..  it is sometimes full.. mostly not.. if you take the mid and early war you see that they often outnumber the old MA style...  even if they didn't tho...

It should be clear that many, if not most... were not content to simply play in the old MA environment with early and mid war planes.   They didn't enjoy flying aginst the la las and spit 16's and such.

The early war planes are being used and people are having fun.   When more early war planes are developed....  even more people will have a reason to try em out... the way things were....

What was the point of developing new planes that would pretty much sit on the shelf and not be used?  even by people who loved those planes.

There seems to have been at least half the community that was not thrilled with the old MA and is having fun with the new arenas...  you should be glad that now you can play with like minded virtual pilots... I know I am.

One thing for sure..... instead of 90% of my deaths coming from taking off or landing vultches in the old MA....   90% of my deaths now come from real fights in the EW....  Lots of people are enjoying that aspect... the slum factor in that regard is only in the late war arena now.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[hubsonfire]

I keep seeing the idea that the MA was perfect as it was being the sole reason to ditch the new setup. That's fine, that's your opinion. However, many of us think it was broken, and I personally feel it was broken by the sheer numbers of people playing. That's my opinion, and that's fine too.
But when the only guys who actually can see the numbers, the subscriptions cancelled and created, the email and phone calls... when those guys say it needs fixed, and needs fixed now if they are to be able to keep things going... why does no one accept that as being an honest statement?

Are you really that narrow minded to think that HTC did this just to suit a few of us? Can you really form an opinion without actually looking around? Can anyone really say the MA was the best thing ever, when it was all there was?

Seriously, calm down and give it a bit. If you can't calm down, won't try to adapt, won't even try the game out, then what exactly are you doing here? Whining on the bbs didn't change the game, and whining even more isn't going to change it back.