New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates

[MIShill]

Let's eliminate Bish.....today!



-MI-

[TexInVa]

Originally posted by MrDick
Ironically... I *never* see any of the most vocal pro-arena split posters online.

-MrD

I saw you yesterday.

As for being a "pro-arena split" poster, I think I should be classified more as a "stop panicking and freaking out, I don't think they're going to change it back, so make the best of it" poster.

It's good to see that almost all of the little fixes and tweaks that have been asked for have been implemented. There are still some minor things that need to be worked out. I was flying for my country when I found that I couldn't up a hurri because of the ENY. I went to a different country and flew for them until the numbers started leveling out. This took something under a half hour. So I tried to go back to my country of origin, and imagine my suprise when I found out that I had to wait another 249 minutes (that's 4 hours and 9 minutes) before I could switch back. That's not going to happen again. I'll stand outside the tower with my .45 and shoot at you as you fly by before I try that again, unless the time limit is dropped to an hour or so.

[TexMurphy]

Originally posted by MrDick
I also think most good pilots will be in EWA, which means pilots in LWA will never get any better.

Ironic how well that models the war...

[Edbert1]

Originally posted by Guppy35
So what was lost?

I think I can answer that from the POV of the other side...

Two things were potentially lost here:
1.) During prime-time US some of the squads with 30-60 online at one time (shudder) cannot all get into the same arena at the same time due to the cap of 250.
2.) During European prime-time having three arenas disperses the population, making areans even less populated than it was before.

My opinion, in response to the first,  if one squad had 20-25% of the arena population that would be an issue. In response to the second, I think the players have the ability and choices necessary to congregate in one or two arenas to increase the numbers. But the smaller maps should help, if an arena only had 40 folks on a 512X512 map fights would be much harder to find. I have had hours of enjoyment from 50-75 players on a 256X26 map.

[4510]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
So, MrDick, 4510... did you enjoy your time in the EWA?

I flew about 40% of my time yesterday in the EWA yesterday and hated every minute of it.   (only kidding)

I don't think I've ever said the EWA needs to go away or that it isn't fun.  I just don't see what everyone is raving about.  The EWA is just an arena that allows a given plane set to "compete".  I don't see any difference in the tactics.  I saw all the negative things people complain about, whether it is ganging, HO, vultch, tanks on the runway, you name it.  Matter of fact the HO part is even more humorous in the EWA because most of that plane set SHOULD be able to maneuver well enough to gain a position of advantage.  Instead the HOICANES just go flailing by spraying.

The ENY limiter was still a pain and I logged because of it.

Numbers in the LW were consistently higher than the EWA all evening, tho the Rooks were at a disadvantage in the LW all day.

That's what I saw... what did you see?

[lazs2]

4510...  I don't know how you get that a bunch of people all saying that the EW is the best fights they have ever had and that they are having the most fun they have had in years to mean "elitist" attitude...   Perhaps being on the other end of your B & Z 190 was not as much fun in the old MA as you thought it was?

I think another thing that people may be missing is that the large maps were made because of the population density... too many people on for the small maps...  so... the small maps went away.

The big maps got stale... players tried to make maps and... except for Festers excellent map and one little section (FT) on another... they were a disaster... horrible.

Now...  we will get lots of maps...players can make small maps and are doing so as we speak... but..  You got to have a cap... maybe 250 players...

The guys who loved to cherry pick in lalas and 190d's and such say that the new LW is just like the old MA and is full... well... it is not allways full and it is not like the old MA at all... it is small maps... it is like the old MA before the whordes.   This change has even improved late war gameplay.

I bet if you put the big maps in the LW it would be the most boring arena ever with a 250 cap.... you guys were afraid to fite when it was 500...  with 250 no one would ever see another plane.

It is all good...  only the worst aspects have been removed and things can only get better from here.   People are enjoying flying planes they never even considered because it would have been suicide....  I would see maybe 1 other FM2 in a month and he was usually someone who chose it out of a mistake or because he thought it might be a good plane to take off from the carrier... he would fly  it once and say "the hell with this"  now... we see the pooch od an f4f ferchrisakes having a great time in the EW.

It is all good... more planes will be developed.  They will also get used.. What at concept!   useful early and mid war planes!   Before....  why would you bother with all the work to make an early war plane that no one ever used?

and raider...what about runway vultches and my K/D is mutualy exclusive..  it only means that once I got airborne... I did ok.... imagine my K/D if I had a high threshold for gaminess and boredom and only flew 190d's for instance...  now.... I don't have to fly em and I don't have to see em.... best of both worlds.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[baine1]

The LW arena is usually full.  Second LW with 60 pilots is not what I am looking for.

I think the small maps need at least > 350 pilots to be meaningful.

What he said.
My complaint with this setup, other than the way it appears to have been implemented without any thought given to the myriad headaches that could have been easily corrected before the thing was put in place, is that it's tough to find a good fight and that now there's a chance that the other 10 guys in my squad will have a hard time all logging in to the same place to fly.
I think the idea of, at least for the moment, breaking it down to two countries might help.
I've yet to spend any real time in the MW arena, the one I think would be the most enjoyable, because every time I log in to it, the numbers are very low. Divide those numbers by three, and that means lots of flying and little fighting. That forces me into the LW arena, bumping out other folk who might actually enjoy flying in there.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by soupcan
why not "scrub" rooks, knights, and bish and instead have
2 countries. name these new 2 countries something other than
chess pieces so no one has to feel "hey how come my chess piece
was eliminated".

Good idea.  In combination with the smaller maps that should lie in our future, this would go a long way to focusing the fights.

I stopped into midwar again last night.  The plane set is very good, but the people were scattered all over the map, doing their own little things.  Often this can be solved with player interaction ("hey, let's meet at so-and-so"), but that was less successful, at least last night, than it is in AvA.  Smaller maps would help here, and so would two sides instead of three.

I would wait to implement that for awhile.  Adding such a big change to the new arena setup would probably put some people over the edge.

- oldman

[4510]

Originally posted by Edbert1
I think I can answer that from the POV of the other side...

Two things were potentially lost here:
1.) During prime-time US some of the squads with 30-60 online at one time (shudder) cannot all get into the same arena at the same time due to the cap of 250.
2.) During European prime-time having three arenas disperses the population, making areans even less populated than it was before.

My opinion, in response to the first,  if one squad had 20-25% of the arena population that would be an issue. In response to the second, I think the players have the ability and choices necessary to congregate in one or two arenas to increase the numbers. But the smaller maps should help, if an arena only had 40 folks on a 512X512 map fights would be much harder to find. I have had hours of enjoyment from 50-75 players on a 256X26 map.

Its interesting that AH has had to constantly evolve to deemphasis teamwork.  Don't you think so?

The ENY exists because of the negative reaction to the Rooks developing a very organized country.  Big squads weren't formed, rather multiple squads agreed to cooperate under a central command staff.  The presence of all these multiple squads skewed the numbers and voila, there were complaints and ENY came into existence.

So we had the first user uprising over game play restructure....

Then, some folks developed HUGE squads.  These squads don't necessarily skew the numbers in the arena so the ENY cannot deemphasis their impact.  However, with their organization or agreed upon cooperation, at the point of attack they have a very large numbers advantage.  So the complaints start yet again and we have the multiple arenas thrust upon us.

Now we have the second user uprising over game play restructure....

I know I am quite interested in seeing how things will evolve.  As long as the map reset is the reason for the season, I think we will just see another permutation of teamwork.  It just hasn't fleshed itself out yet.  Even last night in the EWA the Bishops started.  All the fighting was focused primarily around Western center of the map.  However, the Bish went up to the extreme north and for a long time was just a Bish horde vs several Rooks.  The only thing that slowed a Bish steamroller was the difficulty imposed by the plane/tank set in getting the job done.  

As far as choices to congregate.  If each night we see a second LW opening up, then we are doing it wrong.  The cap needs to be lifted on the LW.  The players are making a choice and we are artificially restricting it.  The other players that don't like the LW have their options now.  It is spiteful to keep the LW cap low.

[4510]

Originally posted by lazs2
4510...  I don't know how you get that a bunch of people all saying that the EW is the best fights they have ever had and that they are having the most fun they have had in years to mean "elitist" attitude...   Perhaps being on the other end of your B & Z 190 was not as much fun in the old MA as you thought it was?

I think another thing that people may be missing is that the large maps were made because of the population density... too many people on for the small maps...  so... the small maps went away.

The big maps got stale... players tried to make maps and... except for Festers excellent map and one little section (FT) on another... they were a disaster... horrible.

Now...  we will get lots of maps...players can make small maps and are doing so as we speak... but..  You got to have a cap... maybe 250 players...

The guys who loved to cherry pick in lalas and 190d's and such say that the new LW is just like the old MA and is full... well... it is not allways full and it is not like the old MA at all... it is small maps... it is like the old MA before the whordes.   This change has even improved late war gameplay.

I bet if you put the big maps in the LW it would be the most boring arena ever with a 250 cap.... you guys were afraid to fite when it was 500...  with 250 no one would ever see another plane.

It is all good...  only the worst aspects have been removed and things can only get better from here.   People are enjoying flying planes they never even considered because it would have been suicide....  I would see maybe 1 other FM2 in a month and he was usually someone who chose it out of a mistake or because he thought it might be a good plane to take off from the carrier... he would fly  it once and say "the hell with this"  now... we see the pooch od an f4f ferchrisakes having a great time in the EW.

It is all good... more planes will be developed.  They will also get used.. What at concept!   useful early and mid war planes!   Before....  why would you bother with all the work to make an early war plane that no one ever used?

and raider...what about runway vultches and my K/D is mutualy exclusive..  it only means that once I got airborne... I did ok.... imagine my K/D if I had a high threshold for gaminess and boredom and only flew 190d's for instance...  now.... I don't have to fly em and I don't have to see em.... best of both worlds.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

My dearest Laz,

I don't get my elitist opinon based upon people's appraisal of the EWA.  Actually I get it from some of the condescending or personal attack tactics used in forum posts.  No what I mean Vern?

As far as your thinly veiled 190d comments.  It's a great airplane.   And if you take the time to look at how it compares against the rest of the plane set on speed, climb, turn, acceleration, lethality, etc. you will see the plane turns like a bus, period.  That climb, acceleration and speed are its only assets and in the LW it isn't the best in ANY of those categories.  How would you suggest it be flown?  ( I can only imagine)

As for the BnZ with it.  You are welcome to check my kill stats, tho it will be a bit skewed now with my time in the EWA.  I don't know the exact percentage but the plane types that I had double digit kills of were all the BnZ type planes.  P51s, LA7s, and Spit MK XVIs.  You don't see a lot of Hurricanes, KIs, 109s, F6Fs etc.  So it isn't like I am jumping the poor slow guy going in circles.  Rather I am chasing the fast guys that fight the BnZ fight.  

Do you know what altitude the D9 will/can outrun an La7?  Do you know what alt the D9 can outclimb the La7 and Pony?  Do know when it loses that advantage?  Do you know such information about your own ride?  Or is the solution to just TURN... and if that doesn't work replane?

You are right, a large map with a cap of 250 would be boring.  BUT the cap of 250 is artificial.  As we can make a choice to have a small map, we can make a choice to have a higher cap.  The only difference is you prefer the smaller cap and I think player participation should dictate the cap.  Oh, and of course you are aligned with what HiTech wants to do and I am at odds with it.  I would suggest your position is less frustrating than mine.  MBaaaahhhhh

As for the F4F... they are the minority in the EWA.  Its Hurricanes, Zekes, and Spits, with a few 109s, fewer 38s (all flown high and BnZ) and then a 190 here or there.  I see more 109s than I do F4Fs.  Matter of fact, last night I saw more 38s.  But, don't think of my position as anti-EWA.  It isn't, tho I don't see the EWA as "all that".  I am anti CAP and the derision being aimed at folks that like the LWA.  How could I not like the EWA?  Except when I can't get one because of ENY the FW190A5 is a harvesting MACHINE in the EWA!

Finally, more airplanes added to the set.  Bring 'em on!  Maybe their development will entice people out of the LWA.  You know, develop the product before you force people to adopt the game style necessary to accomodate the new product?  Entice instead of dictate?

[4510]

Originally posted by bj229r
Some of the best fiter pilots in here have poor overall ranks because they don't care to fly anything ELSE

Hey, maybe we are on to something here.....

Instead of just doing arenas so people are forced into flying a certain style of fight or year of plane... we could set it up so folks have to "fly" the other platforms as well.

You know.. no more than 40% of your hops can be in fighters.  Once you hit that CAP you have to fly bombers for a certain percentage or GVs for a certain percentage!  

DAMN BJ !  I think you've broken the code !  Then everyone will have an appreciation for the other guys that don't do exactly what they do!

Wonder how we can get this enacted

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by 4510
Hey, maybe we are on to something here.....

Instead of just doing arenas so people are forced into flying a certain style of fight or year of plane... we could set it up so folks have to "fly" the other platforms as well.

You know.. no more than 40% of your hops can be in fighters.  Once you hit that CAP you have to fly bombers for a certain percentage or GVs for a certain percentage!  

DAMN BJ !  I think you've broken the code !  Then everyone will have an appreciation for the other guys that don't do exactly what they do!

Wonder how we can get this enacted

I  have already done it all ... Fighters ... GVs ... Bombers ... I prefer flying fighters ... I like an occasional run in GVs ... could care less about bombers.

Those that haven't "tried it all" ... are probably the lowest in percentge of the total population.

[bj229r]

Originally posted by 4510
Hey, maybe we are on to something here.....

Instead of just doing arenas so people are forced into flying a certain style of fight or year of plane... we could set it up so folks have to "fly" the other platforms as well.

You know.. no more than 40% of your hops can be in fighters.  Once you hit that CAP you have to fly bombers for a certain percentage or GVs for a certain percentage!  

DAMN BJ !  I think you've broken the code !  Then everyone will have an appreciation for the other guys that don't do exactly what they do!

Wonder how we can get this enacted

YYYYYup, I'm smart that way

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Mugzeee
Well. actually the whines of the past were from the "Pure fighter" guys...now that the otherside of the community are being effected..we see many many guys are responding that rarely have posted before.
In light of that i think we can all see who the constant cry babies of the HTC BBS are. Opinions of the few...

Actually, if you notice the "Pure fighther" players are the ones that approve of the arena changes.  


ack-ack

[lazs2]

ok 4510...  why do you fly the d9?    I know that in any really fast plane like the tempest or lala or peee51 or whatever... you had a great chance of not ever getting caught if you paid the slightest bit of attention and/or hung out with/above the horde.. you could allways run... why would anyone chase you or.. how could they catch you?   boring stuff tho.

I think the reasons for the changes are good.   I think more adjusting will happen... some you will like... some I will like.

I don't think you were in the EW long enough or enough into the spirit of it to judge.   That seems obvious...  there seem to be layers in it... I fly low and slow... avoid getting into the fight till it comes down.   In the low furball the 109's aren't around too much they run... know what i mean vern?

I can see that your style would not work out for the early war.   I can see how some new guys might like the LW and the chance to at least kill with lots of cannon..  I can see how some might like preying on said newbies.

Just not what I like to do..  apparently there are a lot of guys who feel the same.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's