Integrity

[999000]

It's always troubling when people make statements and you ask for the data by which the statement is based.....and they give you nothing! I can certainly respect a position different from my own perspective but give us SOMETHING by which the decision (data wise) that supports your premis that the MA  was UNHEALTHY!

 If the data proves your case...then lets see the data!

999000

[Grits]

Respectfully 999, and I am not trying to be rude just blunt, but HT doesnt owe you any explanation beyond what they posted, which was crystal clear to me. They sure dont need to justify anything they do with THEIR[/b] privately owned business to you or me or any other cusomer of theirs.

We rent a room in their hotel, if they change the carpet or paint the walls to a color we dont like, we either get used to it, or we check out.

[Shifty]

Originally posted by 999000
It's always troubling when people make statements and you ask for the data by which the statement is based.....and they give you nothing! I can certainly respect a position different from my own perspective but give us SOMETHING by which the decision (data wise) that supports your premis that the MA  was UNHEALTHY!

 If the data proves your case...then lets see the data!

999000

999000 let it go already. Some of you guys have been upset for over 48 hours now over a game! Think about that. Sure everybody that loves this game has a tendancy to take it too serious at times. This is starting to get beyond bizare.Hitech doesn't have to prove anything to you or anyone else. He doesn't have to provide you with data of any kind.

Your behavior some 50 to 60 hours after the fact could be viewed as an example of the MA being unhealthy. I've flown people I've never met or spoken to in this game before all day today. It's been a great experiance. It seems to me that this change is what you make of it.

There's no reason people can't still fly with their friends, and there's no reason people can't fly the plane they want.
Failure of ethier to happen for you is not the fault of Hitech. It's your fault, make a few minor adjustments, adapt to a little change and get on with your life for christ sakes.

[doobs]

Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese,all together on a seasame seeded bun.

[Guppy35]

The funny thing is I've seen more 'integrity' in the game in the last 2 days then I have in a while.

As Shifty pointed out, folks are talking more, and getting to know people in the game which can only help build the community.

I can only speak for mid-war at this point, but I saw more instances of folks staying out of fights to let guys finish it, guys saluting each other over a good fight, and just generally being much more civil, realizing it's only a game and that the people in it are good for the most part.

That doesn't mean there weren't buffs.  Saw lots of 17s, Lancs etc, but there was very little steamrolling of empty bases.  Guys  were talking about not HO'ing and running and it was just more fun for me that way.

LW is what the old MA was.  I don't know what else you want 999.

We have more options now to fit all kinds of AH flying types.  That can only be a good thing.

[Sloehand]

Originally posted by Grits
Respectfully 999, and I am not trying to be rude just blunt, but HT doesnt owe you any explanation beyond what they posted, which was crystal clear to me. They sure dont need to justify anything they do with THEIR privately owned business to you or me or any other cusomer of theirs.

We rent a room in their hotel, if they change the carpet or paint the walls to a color we dont like, we either get used to it, or we check out. [/B]

Grits, maybe that's what YOU do, but know else I know does it quite like that.  Grown ups stick up for themselves in a positive way by politely telling what it is they don't like.  If it can reasonably be fixed immediately, it should or then you walk.  If it is a long term fix, then you express that your patronage will go elsewhere if things are not changed.  Does neither party good NOT to say why you are dissatified or how it can be rectified.
Actually, Grits, I think I would love to have YOU for a customer in any business I own.  Your priceless!  Take real estate as an example.  Yes, sir, this really is beachfront property though it looks to you like a swamp.  Trust me, real estate is my business not your's.  You can't possibly know what will make you happy.  Give it time, it will grow on you.  Don't bother me with your noise. Just CONTINUE to send the montly checks for the property you thought you were paying for dude.  Or, you can walk away if you don't like it.  But you darn well better NOT have an opinion or complain, cause I don't care.  It's my business so I can do anything I want.

Yup, more pricelss 15 year old mentality -- "I'm happy, so you shut up and take it in the shorts crybaby."   Join the real world and learn how "business relationships" really work.  The only difference between B2C and B2B, is a single, offended business can make a bigger impact more quickly when they're dissatisfied than the individual consumer can.  However, in the long run though, the result is the same.  Piss enough customer off, and business will suffer.

[TinmanX]

Sloehand, you're talking about something entirely different and your real estate analogy is totally out of place and wrong as your example is an example of lies over truth. Your realtor lied to try and sell his product and what lies have you heard about the new arena set-up might I enquire?

This is how I see it, and I am a business man with customers and own my own company so I speak with at least a modicum of experience. Lets use Coca-Cola instead of either HTC or my own company for an example though.

Coca-Cola decides that for the company to advance they need to adapt their product. They do this by creating from a single product, many different products. They give their customers Diet Coke. They also give them Caffine free Coke and they still have regualr Coke there too.

What you drink is up to you still. Some of the cans are different but you still have (A) what you were used to and add to that (B) two other products which you may either drink or not drink but whinging about the fact that they are there is ridiculous.

Of course, Coca Cola still only has a small patronage at this point but word is spreading quickly that the company is catering to specialist tastes and numbers will grow.

And of course, they are still tinkering and fine tuning the recipe and that will go on for years.




As a business man I applaud HTC's business move. As a customer I have a choice. Do I drink or leave? Well, I'm thirsty as hell and unlike Coca-Cola, HTC hasn't removed the cocaine from Aces High yet.

[hubsonfire]

Now there is a good analogy. The only thing I might add to that is that you should call Coke one day and scream about how you've purchased Old Coke for years, and who the **** do they think they are adding more choices, and why weren't you notified, demand to see the data they used to rationalize those obviously idiotic products, and then let them know that you'll buy no more coke until they drop all those BS flavors that you don't drink.
 
Try that, and let us know how it goes.

[KONG1]

You want the truth?

You want the TRUTH!?

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!

[999000]

Grits  First because someone has a negative opion of the changes does not make it a whine.....I understand that if you don't want to hear the negative and think about what the person is saying you can just call it a name..... a whine.

 Secondly, You are right, legally Hitech doesn't owe us anything concerning these changes........But give what is legal and what is ethical and moral I hope great people will always choose moral/ethical over the legal good.

Thirdly, Hitech opened the door when he stated the MA was unhealthy..I am given the impression that a long deep analyasis was done to study the issue. I am not asking him for extra work to be done I simply am asking to hear, see statistically  data that supports the premis that the MA was unhealthy, work that has already been done I imagine. I'd like to see the questions they asked of themselves etc.

Its up to Hitech to choose the legal or the ethical road.

Finally, I understand this is a game for all... and its also a community for many. And for those of us who have played the game for months, years, or close to a decade I don't offer an appology for caring about the direction of the game that reminds me AW's demise.

999000

[SFCHONDO]

He didn't really get rid of the MA, just made it smaller and renamed it LW. Most still go there unfortunately. EW and MW have the better match-ups, except the numbers in there are to low, which makes me log off earlier than I would want too. (Not to mention the jacked up ENY settings) Wish he didn't make it to where a 2nd LW arena opens up when numbers get close to full. Would make some try EW and MW and in time a lot would probably like it better. Problem is, most people are creatures of habit and go where they see the numbers are and automatically go to that arena. SAD really, game play is tons better without fighting LALAs and 16's by the dozens. Guess some are to scared to take off the training wheels.

[bagrat]

now meanwhile i like the changes and dont really have a problem with the cgange bein so sudden, i have to question some peoples outlook on the way a business is run. AH does not need to tell us everything goin on in the office, but the analogy saying "this is AH house an we should be thankfull they allow us to be here" is not really reasonable.

thats fine if thats ur outlook on something like the DPS, but here its just a luxury and the customer is equally important.

[mQuinn]

It's always troubling when people make statements and you ask for the data by which the statement is based.....and they give you nothing! -- 999000

Respectfully 999, and I am not trying to be rude just blunt, but HT doesnt owe you any explanation beyond what they posted, which was crystal clear to me. They sure dont need to justify anything they do with THEIR privately owned business to you or me or any other cusomer of theirs.  -- Grits

I don't think that 999 said that he was "owed' anything.  He just said that it was troubling.  In the general sense of 999's statement, it is troubling.  It's a feeling that has roots in the formation of the USA, "taxation without representation".  Though, I in no way compare the significance of this event to the former.  

We aren't being taxed here.  We can leave anytime we want and refuse to pay.  It's just that it's kind of innate to take offense to unsettling changes when you have spent years paying to support a service, as I am sure many here have.  Especially when you don't even get to hear the full story behind it, nor get to voice your opinion before the changes are made.

Don't get me wrong.  HTC has full right to do what they have done.  I also like the change for the most part.  It sometimes sucks, because the group of people I played with, spread out among many different squads, can no longer find one another, but it has had other benefits and maybe we will overcome this.  But, that is beside the point.

First thing I disagree with here is the dismissal of dissenting opinions.  This is a open forum until HTC decides otherwise.  They have posted their rules to this forum and none say that customers cannot complain about a change in service.  This change made the game more enjoyable for some and less enjoyable for others.  Let's not forget that HTC was formed in the first place, because of dissenting opinions.

Second and last thing I disagree with:

They sure dont need to justify anything they do with THEIR privately owned business to you or me or any other cusomer of theirs.  -- Grits

Wrong.  The first thing in business is to justify to your customers that they have a valid reason to buy your product.  Watch a car salesman in action,  number one agenda, justify in the customer's mind the reason to buy their car.  Furniture, vacuums, cabinets, washer/dryers, furnaces, real estate, etc. they are all sold on these justifications.  Heck, Microsoft and GM have spent more on this one point that the GNP of some countries.  They sure do need to justify what they do when people are paying for their service.  

"Integrity" was a great name for this thread.  Definition: an undivided or unbroken completeness or totality with nothing wanting.

[bkbandit]

if they still offered regular coke(the regular m/a) there wouldnt be a problem. Run early mid late and give me a regualr Main Arena. Do that and see where the numbers are. A room with 8 bishops 4 knites and 12 rooks isnt my idea of a war. For that i could go and open a h2h room for free.  I guess thats like drinking water instead of the coke.

[LYNX]

Originally posted by 999000
It's always troubling when people make statements and you ask for the data by which the statement is based.....and they give you nothing! I can certainly respect a position different from my own perspective but give us SOMETHING by which the decision (data wise) that supports your premis that the MA  was UNHEALTHY!

 If the data proves your case...then lets see the data!

999000

I can't say i agree with you on a private business disclosing any data..... relevant or not.  However, it could have been handled alot better.

Wrong. The first thing in business is to justify to your customers that they have a valid reason to buy your product. Watch a car salesman in action, number one agenda, justify in the customer's mind the reason to buy their car. Furniture, vacuums, cabinets, washer/dryers, furnaces, real estate, etc. they are all sold on these justifications. Heck, Microsoft and GM have spent more on this one point that the GNP of some countries. They sure do need to justify what they do when people are paying for their service.

As above a simple sales ploy would have done the trick.  I was that car salesman and you do not mention that the older car is inferior you exstol
the benefits of the new product over the old.

 A customers part exchange / trade in isn't "unhealthy", isn't a knackered old banger, isn't inferior.   It's older, it's getting dated, it's obvously served you well but times are moving ....blah blah.  The punter NEEDS a reasond explanation as to why he should trade in his faithfull beloved for the newer upto date product which comes down to benefits.

HTC and co are only guilty of not expressing the benifits of their new product over the old.  They are obviously more "hands on" than slimey sales touts .

Would you like a halfwit salemans coding a game ? or can you forgive a coder for not managing the aspect of BENEFITS ?

Yer, yer, it seemed rude.  You was paying for something else.  It was thrust upon us but honestly.... take a step back a take another look.  Whats different ?  "Late" is the old MA and now their is more period choice.  If you no langer want to get HOed by a newbie in a gay7 or dive bombed by Lancaster you don't have to.