Author Topic: Sweden boots its socialist government (Read 1359 times)

mora · « **Reply #30 on:** September 19, 2006, 04:54:28 AM »

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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Nashwan, regarding quality, you get what you pay for

Yes, only Luxembourg, Norway and Iceland "steal" more from their citizens to public healthcare.

Nilsen · « **Reply #31 on:** September 19, 2006, 04:58:12 AM »

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Originally posted by mora
Yes, only Luxembourg, Norway and Iceland steal more from their citizens to public healthcare.

theft? rofl

works fine.. not perfect, but no system is flawless.

mora · « **Reply #32 on:** September 19, 2006, 05:01:21 AM »

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Originally posted by Nilsen
theft? rofl

I guess you missed my point. I wasn't the one who bought up that term.

Anyway I guess someone could call it a theft, as you don't have the option of not paying for it and not using it. Even the Americans don't have that option. Personally I've received more than I paid for, so I don't have any complaints. Yesterday I had to wait for 4 hours to see a doc for 5 minutes, but I got 3 days of sick leave, so no complaints about that either.

Nilsen · « **Reply #33 on:** September 19, 2006, 05:03:13 AM »

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Originally posted by mora
I guess you missed my point. I wasn't the one who bought up that term.

aha irony.. i see.

abit early in the morning for me today

Saintaw · « **Reply #34 on:** September 19, 2006, 06:12:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Nashwan, regarding quality, you get what you pay for

Not true in our case. I live in Luxembourg (see the chart) and I get excellent healthcare payed for by the state (this is new to me as I have been a freelance/contractor most of my working life). This is not like the NHS in UK (I have terrible memories of those bastards).

I got to pick my own clinic (private) and when i had plastic surgery last year to rebuild my jawbone, it was done perfectly and it cost me 12% of the total medical costs.

Also Rip, one thing you 'murkans fail to understand properly is the term "socialist" when it comes to modern political parties ... what you call socialist are in fact (dying) communist parties in Yurop, the "socialists" would be more close to your democratic party. The ones f***ing up all of us are the unions... I guess it's the same everywhere as far as those ***ers are concerned.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #35 on:** September 19, 2006, 07:15:32 AM »

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Originally posted by AKH
Are you an anarchist? You certainly sound like one.

Radical anarchist, but in the true form of the word anarchist. Anarchists believe in absolutely no government, not that "Let's go crazy" form of anarchy. But the closest to any political ideology you can put me is radical objectivist.

But you have not addressed whether or not the government is stealing the money from you.

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All those hard working people in your country must be downright pissed about the billions stolen from them to maintain and pay the US military then huh?

Actually, they are not. Imagine a robber in an alley stealing a huge chunk of your income every year. Soon you get so used to it that it doesn't bother you. You even feel better when the robber tells you he's going to use it for "noble" purposes.

Now replace the words "Robber" and "steal" with "Government" and "Tax" and you'll realize that you're taking it up the bellybutton anyway.

soda72 · « **Reply #36 on:** September 19, 2006, 08:02:31 AM »

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Originally posted by Nilsen
Based on?

Spitting out poor bate

was not...

Maniac · « **Reply #37 on:** September 19, 2006, 08:07:16 AM »

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Originally posted by lasersailor184

Actually, they are not. Imagine a robber in an alley stealing a huge chunk of your income every year. Soon you get so used to it that it doesn't bother you. You even feel better when the robber tells you he's going to use it for "noble" purposes.

Now replace the words "Robber" and "steal" with "Government" and "Tax" and you'll realize that you're taking it up the bellybutton anyway.

Robin In Da Hood!

MIShill · « **Reply #38 on:** September 19, 2006, 08:08:09 AM »

Whe does this always revolve around health care? As the U.S. becomes more controlled by HMOs then the system more resembles statist care. The only difference is who collects the premiums. It hurts a lot more to actually see what it costs, rather than have the cost buried in "withholding taxes". The down side to this model of health care is that costs are controlled by some form of rationing and wage controls. Rationing only hurts thaose who need a rarioned-expensive- service and wage controls just translate into health care workers becoming "40 hour (in France 36 hour) a week workers" As an American physician who formerly worked 60-100 hours a week providing both regular and emergency care, my services are now much reduced-as they are in those countries where socialist care prevails. I have some knowledge of the system, as 2 of my partners are Canadian, 1 is English and 1 is Swiss.
-MI-

mora · « **Reply #39 on:** September 19, 2006, 08:13:06 AM »

I would not want to be treated by a physician who constantly works 60-100 hours a week. Their hours should be restricted the same way as is the case with commercial pilots.

AKH · « **Reply #40 on:** September 19, 2006, 08:42:17 AM »

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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Radical anarchist, but in the true form of the word anarchist. Anarchists believe in absolutely no government, not that "Let's go crazy" form of anarchy. But the closest to any political ideology you can put me is radical objectivist.

But you have not addressed whether or not the government is stealing the money from you.

"The way to deal with kids whose first real read was Ayn Rand is to ignore them, let them feel superior, and let them learn for themselves that other people provide the only framework in which that kid can succeed."

Sound advice, I think.

lazs2 · « **Reply #41 on:** September 19, 2006, 08:50:40 AM »

a few years back I had a 250,000 dollar operation by the best specialists in the world and it didn't cost me a cent... my insurance paid for it.

I did not have to steal a penny from my fellow citizens to pay for it. Does that make me an anarchist?

When I go on medicare I will have paid into the "insurance" plan of medicare for many years...

Do you socialists think that someone else should pay for your car insurance or life insurance too?

We are talking insurance here.

lazs

AKH · « **Reply #42 on:** September 19, 2006, 09:29:20 AM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
We are talking insurance here.

lazs

We are also talking about insurance - the term "National Insurance contributions" sort of implies that, don't you think? The major difference seems to be that we only have to pay once, whereas you are essentially obliged to pay twice. Plus the fact that our policy terms are much less restrictive since we are the shareholders.

lukster · « **Reply #43 on:** September 19, 2006, 09:42:36 AM »

Fact is that we already have socialized medicine in US to a large degree. Those that can't or won't afford insurance, including the millions of illegal aliens, still get healthcare with the costs passed on to those who can pay or have insurance. There already is a huge beauracy involved and I'm not sure the government could handle it any worse. In this respect we may as well fully embrace the dark side. We are already ravaged by it, perhaps there is some benefit to be derived.

Nilsen · « **Reply #44 on:** September 19, 2006, 10:35:47 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
a few years back I had a 250,000 dollar operation by the best specialists in the world and it didn't cost me a cent... my insurance paid for it.

I did not have to steal a penny from my fellow citizens to pay for it. Does that make me an anarchist?

When I go on medicare I will have paid into the "insurance" plan of medicare for many years...

Do you socialists think that someone else should pay for your car insurance or life insurance too?

We are talking insurance here.

lazs

You did perhaps not "steal" from your fellow citizens, but you did "steal" from everyone else that pays insurance, unless you have payed over 250.000 USD to the insurance company already. Cant compare car insurance to this in any way at all.

The best possible healthcare is a basic human right and not something that should be awarded to those who can afford it, while those who cant afford have to settle for less.