Ah chess pieces

[LYNX]

Followed swiftly by the voice of reality.

1)Majority of squads do not want to "side change".

2)Strat squads rarely change sides and if they do it's usually for LOOOOONG periods.

3)Human nature / instinct and to some extent pier pressure instills in our behaviour allegiances.  

From the Troop to the tribe to the clan to the county to the country to the empire.  

When allegiances collapse so to do empires ask Darth Vada and if the Frenchies hadn't helped out some rebellious Brits (traitors for alliances with the French) Her Majesty the Queen would be Sovereign of the World by now:aok

(hehe anyone see what i'm doing here.  Selling cars was so much fun.  I miss the mind games at times.)

Umm i digress... it's a game but Human instincts will prevail is what I'm saying.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by LYNX
Followed swiftly by the voice of reality.

1)Majority of squads do not want to "side change".

2)Strat squads rarely change sides and if they do it's usually for LOOOOONG periods.

3)Human nature / instinct and to some extent pier pressure instills in our behaviour allegiances.  

From the Troop to the tribe to the clan to the county to the country to the empire.  

When allegiances collapse so to do empires ask Darth Vada and if the Frenchies hadn't helped out some rebellious Brits (traitors for alliances with the French) Her Majesty the Queen would be Sovereign of the World by now:aok

(hehe anyone see what i'm doing here.  Selling cars was so much fun.  I miss the mind games at times.)

Umm i digress... it's a game but Human instincts will prevail is what I'm saying.

To another voice of reality.

Dan and others are saying that the refuse-niks are simply setting their "clan loyalty" sights too low on the scale. How silly is the clan that ignores the state of the nation? Kinda like those "failed states" where factions would rather fight each other than solve the problems that ruin life for them all?

Be honest, Lynx -- the real issue is what came out at the very beginning of your post.

Majority of the squads do not want...change

That's where it sticks in the craw.


Clan loyalty can be good. So can other things. These changes are not a question of good versus evil, but rather of good things competing for priority.So whats MORE IMPORTANT to you...the good of absolute chess loyalty, or the good of quality gameplay?

If you pick clan loyalty, though, remember this -- you have CHOSEN to make gameplay less important, so you have less right to complain about its quality.

[Kev367th]

HT you replied to Lynx's post but never even touched on the FACT that now sides get even more lop-sided than ever.

You have taken an occassional problem and turned it into almost an hourly (definately daily) problem in most arenas.

I really feel for the non-US players they have really got the poopy end of the stick, and each change seems to be making it worse for them.

I think by now most of us realise what your trying to do, but trying to change human nature, well, more chance of getting money back from the taxman.

Plus if you so intent on equal sides, the only logical progression from there is only 2 countries, after all can't have 2 gang up on one, thats unfair.

[Simaril]

WE are the only barrier to equal sides.

So ask yourself...what is more important to you: Equal sides, or chesspiece loyalty?

We each make the choice, but we also each have to live with the consequences of our choices. Thas how life works, after all.

[Edbert]

Originally posted by Kev367th
I think by now most of us realise what your trying to do, but trying to change human nature, well, more chance of getting money back from the taxman.

So by this reasoning we should just acknowlege that it is human nature to want to fly for a chesspeice that outnumbers another 7 to 1?

Take a look around the gaming world in general, there are concesions made at every level to try to thwart that "human nature" you speak of. Personally I'd call the nature where a players wants to fly with overwhelming odds and obliterate their foes while remaining essentially invincible a borderline c-worder. If you insist on slanting the playing field to the extent illustrated above..

bish-8
knight-24
rook-53

...then if you're not a c-worder, at best you're a greifer.

Just to be sure, I am not calling the 53 rooks "cheaters". But I certainly have to question their motivation (as well as their class/honor/integrity) for paying a monthly fee to "fly" with practically no opposition. I mean, the whole point of flying online is to fight a human opponent right? If not there are boxed sims that provide at least equal ability to attack buildings, perhaps Lazs is right in that the allure for some folks is in the "chat room" mentality of the arenas, maybe that's the biggest gripe against smaller arenas. But I do not see how 53 people attacking 8 could POSSIBLY be fun for either side, regardless of what the 24 knights were doing. This is the "human nature" you speak of. This nature is what will have to be stamped out for the long term viability of the game. Since we are unable to police our own community, and the numerous carrots are apparently not working, then it seems silly to complain when the stick is brought out.

[SlapShot]

I really feel for the non-US players they have really got the poopy end of the stick, and each change seems to be making it worse for them.

Poopy end of the stick being that some non-US players (non-US prime time) choose to populate all the arenas and not all flock to just one arena ?

From what I can see, it's the LW non-US people that are the most vocal.

Example:

EW - 10
MW - 15
LWO - 40

The 25 that are using the EW and MW choose to fly in those arenas (for whatever reason(s)) and more than likely having fun doing so.

Should HT force them into the LW arena if they don't want to be there just so those 40 can have more people to fight ?

I don't know why people keep on insisting that HT switch back to the one arena format.

HT use to serve a hot dog with mustard, relish, and onions ... no choice of any one condiment ... you had to have all 3 ... or nothing at all.

HT now serves up a hot dog with a choice ... you can have just mustard, or you can have just relish, or you can have mustard, relish, and onions.

It appears that people like the new choices and it appears that HT isn't going to change the menu, and the mustard-relish-onion crowd just can't understand that.

[lazs2]

ltarmoil... you asked what my idea of good gameplay is...  I told you that 3 little generals or more circle jerking undefended fields and hiding from each other was not....

What is, in my opinion, is a couple of fairly close fields or a CV where planes are upping from both sides and meeting in the middle somewhere and fighting.. alts range from on the deck to say 5 k...  planes are fairly equal in performance with some faster some more manueverable...    

The problem with the latter war planes has to do with the fact that they are fast enough to be immune to the ack and can runway dive...  if that were fixed(some more manned ack quad fifties or better tracking unmanned ack).. late war would be more fun...  I have also seen good gameplay in the tank town areas with dozens of tanks on each side but again... late war bombers carpet bomb away the fun with little or no skill.

having dot dar makes for good fights... suicide dar porkers ruin it.

A lot of areas that have close fields and cv's help... if one field is taken... the building battlers got their fun and the furballers can just move to the next fight...maybe it will get taken or...maybe not for an hour or so (which is all the time most furballers spend in a sitting in any case).

Those who think it is human nature for lopsided milkrunning and 10 vs one fights and choosing late war lalas and such against early war planes are mistaken I think.

I think it is the nature of a few guys with large squads and the nature of an influx of players we got from another sim...  I think that if they leave or change then real human nature will take over and the some sort of fairness will return.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[Mr No Name]

Kev367 nails it on the head again!

[aztec]

Originally posted by lazs2
hmm...  ya know it is not the overall numbers that make for good gameplay...

It is good gameplay that makes for good gameplay..


boner claims my posts about the current gameplay are funny...  seems most everyone here that isn't married to a chess peice and the gameplay of "numbers is everything" is agreeing that we are finding more and better action and that the people, for the most part, are more fun and polite to fly with.

I flew with overlag yesterday...  helped him out even...  what is wrong with that?    If you never switch you never get to talk to your nemisis.

If you ever flew with a country and it left a bad taste then it was probly because you wanted to have things your way kev.  


Public Relations Officer for the BK's

I agree with these thoughts 100%.

[hitech]

I think by now most of us realise what your trying to do, but trying to change human nature, well, more chance of getting money back from the taxman.

Kev: Im not trying to change human nature, The change is about using human nature to effect a desired out come.

Also you missunderstand my desire for balanced numbers. And besides going back to the old way, any sugestions or ideas ?

HiTech

[ghi]

Originally posted by SlapShot
IFrom what I can see, it's the LW non-US people that are the most vocal.

Example:

EW - 10
MW - 15
LWO - 40

.

 imop,what"s worst and sad, is beeing enforced by new  "dumping"sistem, to join that EW  at high #s in the evening,
  After  4-5 years , in SEA scenario, we still use Huricane and P40 acting  as EW russian plane , EW arena is a joke, more poor in toys than a chess game,

[Overlag]

Originally posted by hitech
Kev: Im not trying to change human nature, The change is about using human nature to effect a desired out come.

Also you missunderstand my desire for balanced numbers. And besides going back to the old way, any sugestions or ideas ?

HiTech

the only issue i now have with the current setup is......



if you are loosing in one arena, you join another.. which makes it worse for everyone else.

you will have one arena with 10 knits in, and 50 bish/rooks, and one arena with 10bish in and 50 knit/rooks etc...

ive pm'ed a few times across arenas to try and get support, and it does work.. but if we are having "fun" winning a war, then all of a sudden all the bish quit and go to another arena, we cant fight anymore, because theres nothing to fight, and we have no planes.

i dont want 100% balance in sides, but i dont want to see one side having 200-400% more players than the low side.

this is what kev (or was it whels?) said that the arena caps should NOT stop the low sided team from joining.

if there is a 120 cap, and bish/rook have 50each, knits only 20, then knits should be allowed...lets say 10 more people to join.

most people will NOT change sides, and the higher sided teams often wont quit to go to the other arena because its not there fault knits didnt get anyone into the arena.

[ghi]

Originally posted by hitech
Kev: Im not trying to change human nature, The change is about using human nature to effect a desired out come.

Also you missunderstand my desire for balanced numbers. And besides going back to the old way, any sugestions or ideas ?

HiTech

  yes, MA was already a crazy cocktail, but did ofer way better quality gaming ,

   What i would like to see and i did hope to see it for long time, like an step ahead in the evolution of this game,is that idea of ToD ,materialized in kind of MA style , a war more realistic AvA,

I would like a 1945 arena/map over Europe with 500-700 caps,
  about 50 bases for western forces,/50 for germans/50 for russians ,  but with specific planes/gvs enabled each front,( no LA7s on west front),covering East/West front, going like MA, bombing campaigns,  
also a dinamic front line, let most of us toolsheders capture land/win the war, cuz that's we like and pay for

[CAV]

Also you missunderstand my desire for balanced numbers. And besides going back to the old way, any sugestions or ideas ?    HiTech

I do. I think what you (HT) is trying to do is to get players and Sqdn's is find new homes in the arena's. Calling that arena home and over time having the numbers balance out over the three arenas.

One thing I would do if I was HT...

Separate scoring by arenas. No longer have a "one over the world scoring system". Yes I know 20 guys are going to jump in here and say, "Points don't mean anytime... score don't = skill...etc. etc. But I think many players use the score page as a yard stick on how well they are doing.

So to get players to pick a new "home" separate the score by arenas. I would reset the perk point some how, so that perks points you get in say LW are not useable in the other arenas.

This is what I would do if I was trying to balance the arenas. That and drop one of the LW arenas and add AvA to the MA's.... LOL

CAVALRY

[Flayed1]

Guppy in responce to the question you asked boner about what other part of the game EW didn't contain......  

  EW has all aspects of fighting from furballing to base taking. The problem is that there are so few #'s in EW that it can't support a good "WAR" very well at all and then becomes just a furball arena..    

  I personally think this is sad because I think EW has some of the best fights for bases with the biggest combination of planes and GV use that I have seen used in game to take a base.....  Maybe not in the variety of planes/GV's used (we really need more in EW) but the type IE fighters, bombers and tanks all working togeather to take an objective.  With this combination EW base taking feels more real I guess would be one way to describe it.   Not just the usual Heavy what ever to smash and grab with a goon right behind.

 I don't know if I am alone in my assesment of EW but thats how I feel.  If the EW "WAR" players would increase I would be spending so much more time in it. As it is now if you try to do the war thing in EW it's just a milkrun.


  EDIT:  I also have had the same thought as CAV up there..  I am by no means a score player, I am happy to keep mine around the 200's  but I do agree it might reward some people more who play in other arenas.