Author Topic: Ah chess pieces (Read 5455 times)

Kev367th · « **Reply #135 on:** November 02, 2006, 02:22:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hitech
Kev: Im not trying to change human nature, The change is about using human nature to effect a desired out come.

Also you missunderstand my desire for balanced numbers. And besides going back to the old way, any sugestions or ideas ?

HiTech

Wish I did.

Quite honestly I think what you are trying to achieve is un-attainable.

Current lop-sided numbers in most arenas proves the majority will not swap sides for whatever reason.

I believe the only option you have is to accept that the majority will not change and find a way of setting the arenas up to prevent the lop-sided numbers happening, without further tee'ing off an even larger number of players.

How, quite frankly I haven't a clue.

Big advantage you have is that AH2 is the premier game of this type out there, so you can play around and get things right, as there really isn't another game for people to go to.

BaldEagl · « **Reply #136 on:** November 02, 2006, 02:27:40 PM »

I was reading this thread yesterday and had an idea that I've been thinking would be nice anyway that might solve the problem. It would be nice if, at the arena log-on screen there was a short recap of what's going on in the arena (i.e. map name, # players for each country and # fields for each country). I'm sure some would go where they have odds but others would go help where needed and it might help the overall #'s in the EW and MW arenas. At least it would be nice to see before entering so you didn't have to jump in and out to see where you want to fly. Just a thought.

Masherbrum · « **Reply #137 on:** November 02, 2006, 02:27:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kev367th

Quite honestly I think what you are trying to achieve is un-attainable.

Current lop-sided numbers in most arenas proves the majority will not swap sides for whatever reason.

You contradict your argument with this. You are saying HTC cannot achieve success in the new format.

BUT, you have said you won't switch, IE, YOU are part of the problem. It is not nice to throw stones in a glass house.

Kev367th · « **Reply #138 on:** November 02, 2006, 02:51:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Masherbrum
You contradict your argument with this. You are saying HTC cannot achieve success in the new format.

BUT, you have said you won't switch, IE, YOU are part of the problem. It is not nice to throw stones in a glass house.

Never claimed in any of my posts that I would switch.

Doesn't contradict at all, it's a fact -

The majority of players won't switch sides, you may as well accept it and stop living in a fantasy world.

So lets see, the majority of players in the game are the problem!!!!!!

As I said the question shouldn't be how do we change their minds
but
How are the arenas setup to get equal numbers in them, as they don't at the moment.

Edbert · « **Reply #139 on:** November 02, 2006, 02:58:06 PM »

All of the ways to enforce fairness that I can think of would case major howls of whineage, the likes of which AH has not yet seen. For example:

Limit the number of active sorties of the two largest populations (combined) to be equal to the number of active sorties of the lowest chesspeice. If you try to roll a plane or GV you get to sit in the queue until it is your turn.[/i]

If folks are unwilling to play fair, and then complain that things are unfair, and then complain again when things are changed to make it more fair; I don't see what options we have other than draconian measures. Frankly...those types of measures are how nearly every other online game handles things. You simply canot join the side with the numbers advantage, the host will decide which team you join. This is made a little tougher by having three teams in a perpetual 1v2 of course. if we continue to force HTC into taking more and more machiavelian measures then we might end up with enforced numbers between two teams. of course I'm sure the "1337 g4m3r5" will find a way to game the game even then.

I'm sure this has been answered somewhere but...is the ENY thing applied to folks logged in or actually flying/driving? If the latter then nevermind, but if the former we might need an "inactivity kick tool".

68ROX · « **Reply #140 on:** November 02, 2006, 03:07:16 PM »

Lopsided numbers was a problem BEFORE the recent arena changes.

Call it human nature, but many players don't enjoy playing in an arena where the sides are 1:1.5 or even greater against them.

In the old days, I would host H2H and ask folks in the MOTD and arena title to please keep sides even. I can't tell you how the vast majority of times I would check on the arena to find 8 on one side tearing up the arena...

Hoard/Lemming/Gang mentality...call it whatever.

There seems to be no solution...

I'm a knight, and we've usually been typically outnumbered in the past...and while things have been a little better of late with the new arena system...I plan to stay knight regardless.

ROX

hitech · « **Reply #141 on:** November 02, 2006, 03:12:35 PM »

Edbert: Sounds like the idea I proposed that turned into the ENY. Anyone care to dig that thread up and post a link?

SlapShot · « **Reply #142 on:** November 02, 2006, 03:16:25 PM »

Let me see if I have this right ... and I will use numbers that are easiest for explanation and not the real numbers.

If ...

LW1 and LW2 have a cap of 100 and when an LW arena population reaches 50% of the cap, the other LW cap is increased by 50 seats.

So ...

Once LW1 reaches 50 players, LW2 cap is increased to 150 and LW1 still has room of 50 more players before is reaches its cap.

Once the 100 cap is reached in LW1 no more entry is allowed.

Now that LW2 cap has been increased to 150, players will begin to fill up LW2. Once LW2 reaches a population of 75 players, LW1 cap will be raised to 150. At this point, people really have a choice of LW1 or LW2 because neither has reached their respective caps.

So at this instant we would see ...

LW1 - 50/150
LW2 - 75/150

==============================================

Now lets go back to the beginning and start again ...

Once LW1 reaches 50 players, LW2 cap is increased to 150 and LW1 still has room of 50 more players.

Once the 100 cap is reached in LW1 (current numbers in LW1 are - 60 Rooks - 25 Knights - 15 Bish) and someone selects LW1 while the cap has been realized, they are presented with another popup choice ...

LW1 - Knights (until they reach a population of 60*)
LW1 - Bish (until they reach a population of 60*)
LW2 - Open for all at the moment

*60 is set by the highest single population at the point that the cap had been reached ... in this case, the Rooks had 60 when the cap was reached.

This way, someone who wants to play in LW1 and is willing to join one of the weaker sides, is allowed entry. So ... If I choose Bish ... the the cap is now 101/101 ... so on and so forth until balance is achieved (180/180), and at that point, there is no more entry into LW1 until LW2 has reached its saturation point causing the cap in LW1 to be increased.

So if LW1 did reach 180/180 by people choosing the under populated countries and LW2 eventually did reach it 50% saturation point, the new cap for LW1 would be 180 + 50 = 230 so we would see ...

LW1 - 180/230
LW2 - 75/150

I realize that this would take some coading, but it could help to alleviate lopsided numbers in "capped" arenas using people who don't care what country they belong to.

indy007 · « **Reply #143 on:** November 02, 2006, 03:16:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Casinoman

There seems to be no solution...

ROX

There is a solution. It's just not one that people like. It just needs a server that functions as a benevolent dictator and enforces even numbers. It works in every other game, and had it been this way to begin with, it wouldn't even be a point worth griping... it would just be the way it is.

edit: okay 2 ideas. Slap's seems like a reasonable solution, but a queue to enter the arena would help it along nicely.

Kev367th · « **Reply #144 on:** November 02, 2006, 03:36:13 PM »

Queues aren't the answer in anyway.

They have been suggested in numerous forms to control specific numbers of plane types in arenas etc, none were implemented thank God, well thank HT.

Slaps idea looked promising until I noticed one flaw -
Could end up with people unable to fly if they weren't prepared to change sides.
Or another arena spawning that is vastly underpopulated and lop-sided one way.
I don't think there are enoguh floaters who swap sides to make the difference, not across multiple arenas anyway.

indy007 · « **Reply #145 on:** November 02, 2006, 03:38:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kev367th
Queues aren't the answer in anyway.

They have been suggested in numerous forms to control specific numbers of plane types in arenas etc, none were implemented thank God, well thank HT.

Slaps idea looked promising until I noticed one flaw -
Could end up with people unable to fly if they weren't prepared to change sides.
Or another arena spawning that is vastly underpopulated.

You can tinker and push people so much, eventually theres a backlash.

You misunderstand my idea of a queue. It's nothing that affects you once you're actually in the server. I'm not even in a skwad, so it's useless to me. However, many people with squads can't get into the same arena, and whine about it (rightfully so). So, let them queue up for the arena they want so they can play with their friends. They'd have the option to wait in line to fly with their friends, and not get automatically bounced to the lower pop arena.

Kev367th · « **Reply #146 on:** November 02, 2006, 03:42:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by indy007
You misunderstand my idea of a queue. It's nothing that affects you once you're actually in the server. I'm not even in a skwad, so it's useless to me. However, many people with squads can't get into the same arena, and whine about it (rightfully so). So, let them queue up for the arena they want so they can play with their friends. They'd have the option to wait in line to fly with their friends, and not get automatically bounced to the lower pop arena.

Ahh got ya.

While it sounds good on the face of it, who honestly wants to sit around waiting for a 'slot(s)' to open up?
Frankly I'd rather it as it is now than sit in a queue.

More I think about it, the more I am starting to lean towards only two countires.
Easier to control equal-ish numbers.
No gangbanging of one country.

SlapShot · « **Reply #147 on:** November 02, 2006, 03:43:29 PM »

Could end up with people unable to fly if they weren't prepared to change sides.

I don't think so ... The choices would be ...

LW1 - Knights (until they reach a population of 60*)
LW1 - Bish (until they reach a population of 60*)
LW2 - Open for all at the moment

So there is always a choice to go to LW2 if you don't want to switch to a side.

Choosing LW2 would be no different that what we have now ... being wisked off to LW2 when LW1 is capped.

I don't think there are enoguh floaters who swap sides to make the difference, not across multiple arenas anyway.

May be true .. may not be. At least people would have a choice ... something they don't have now. You might be surprised.

Overlag · « **Reply #148 on:** November 02, 2006, 03:46:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
Could end up with people unable to fly if they weren't prepared to change sides.

I don't think so ... The choices would be ...

LW1 - Knights (until they reach a population of 60*)
LW1 - Bish (until they reach a population of 60*)
LW2 - Open for all at the moment

So there is always a choice to go to LW2 if you don't want to switch to a side.

Choosing LW2 would be no different that what we have now ... being wisked off to LW2 when LW1 is capped.

what if LW2 is empty or full?

hitech · « **Reply #149 on:** November 02, 2006, 03:47:12 PM »

Slapshot: Your idea has some merit and I have been cosidering it.

Btw your concept of how it works is close with one very minor exception. it is increased by a fixed amount (currently 50) and not a percentage.

HiTech