Author Topic: The night witches (Read 4254 times)

Hortlund · « **Reply #15 on:** October 16, 2007, 11:02:33 AM »

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Originally posted by Dux
Huh? Someone want to tell me more about this?

Sure.

There were none.

Tigeress · « **Reply #16 on:** October 16, 2007, 12:52:12 PM »

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Originally posted by Hortlund
Sure.

There were none.

I don't know about Infrared Detection in WWII, but... just doing some googling, a few things do come up about German WWII IR detection having to do with tanks in addition to this article on The Night Witches... Nothing showed up that would confirm the Russians needed to fear such detection for their night bombers. It may have been paranoia to consider such detection as possible... who knows. German high-technology was respected and feared by the Russians, Americans, and the British, and rightfully so.

Here is an interesting thread from a military forum on the subject of the Night Witches.

Night Witch Forum Thread from WWII in Color

The above contains some very interesting inside information from the Soviet Military, photos, and a short movie.

TIGERESS

Boroda · « **Reply #17 on:** October 16, 2007, 12:57:45 PM »

The most amazing about this girls was that they flew 600-1000 combat sorties... And in the beginning many of them were 17-18 years old.

Tigeress · « **Reply #18 on:** October 16, 2007, 01:15:45 PM »

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Originally posted by Boroda
The most amazing about this girls was that they flew 600-1000 combat sorties... And in the beginning many of them were 17-18 years old.

Yes, history records they were indeed girls.. many started as teenagers flying night bombers.

It is said these girls often flew with a small bomb in their laps that they would throw by hand at the enemy.

Those girls who survived their plane being shot down often committed suicide by detonating their lap borne bomb rather than be taken alive by the Germans.

TIGERESS

Hortlund · « **Reply #19 on:** October 16, 2007, 01:17:05 PM »

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Originally posted by Tigeress
I don't know about Infrared Detection in WWII, but...

[/b]

Well, I do. There were IR optics on German tanks, not on aircraft.

Tigeress · « **Reply #20 on:** October 16, 2007, 01:45:24 PM »

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Originally posted by Hortlund

Well, I do. There were IR optics on German tanks, not on aircraft.

Do you know about a German WWII missile called "Little Red Riding Hood"?

...Or the Kramer X-7 Rotkäppchen Steinbock version with IR homing guidance?

It is written that it's a German WWII IR Seeker guided missile... apparently developed as an anti-tank weapon.

It is also written that the X-7 in its primary configuration was the world's first wire-guided TOW missile.
...perhaps the first one was the X-4? I don't know.

Is it possible for WWII German tanks with IR detection systems to shoot a bomber? on the ground? or in the air?

Is it possible, since German tanks had IR detections systems, that the Germans could have potentially incorporated such systems on FLAK guns and night fighters given enough time?

Can an anti-tank missile hit a bomber? on the ground? or in the air?

I loves Google

Other than the now challanged mention of IR detection in the Night Witches article, I don't have any interest in esoteric stuff such as German WWII IR technology. boring....

...but just for the heck of it, I started researching it online to discover why IR detection was mentioned in the Night Witches write-up.

Some man wrote that "Knowledge is Power", and I believe him!

Today he might also say "Google is Power", I don't know.

TIGERESS

EDIT: hahahaha, oh my... I just googled "Knowledge is Power"; it was coined by Sir Francis Bacon; dang I love Google

Tigeress · « **Reply #21 on:** October 16, 2007, 04:25:47 PM »

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Originally posted by Boroda
The most amazing about this girls was that they flew 600-1000 combat sorties... And in the beginning many of them were 17-18 years old.

Pryvet Boroda, Rada tebya videt!

Do you know of the WWII story of Alexandra Roschupkina?

Pa-ka! Uvidimsia!

TIGERESS

PS: I speak a little Russki only, but Google is my friend

Jackal1 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 17, 2007, 05:55:40 AM »

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Originally posted by Tigeress
Hiya Jackal1 and Culero,

Both very cute poems!

They are songs.

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Sums up a lot of the male side of the equation!

They sum up...humor. Nothing more, nothing less.

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I'm not a bra-burning femininist Lazs might have initially thought I was.

The bra burners of my days were far from feminists.......and we were proud of every one.

culero · « **Reply #23 on:** October 17, 2007, 06:13:24 AM »

Heh...thanks Jackal, saved me that reply

Tigeress, I bet you'd enjoy hearing the songs if you care to take the time to google the mp3s, they're a real hoot

lazs2 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 17, 2007, 08:23:13 AM »

another good song in the country vein is "burn down the trailer park" It pretty much describes the feminist experiance from the male point of view.

lazs

Tigeress · « **Reply #25 on:** October 17, 2007, 11:57:08 AM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
course... after the war was over and the soviets had enough men pilots to go around... there were no women fighter pilots. None in korea and none in vietnam.

lazs

Hi Lazs,

Yes... as far as I can tell that is all true.

I am not offended at all.

Many of us (not all) would rather avoid a fight if possible... I know I avoid fighting... if at all possible.

I think, at least for me... the issue was not whether we live to fight... but whether we can and whether we will... if the need arises.

We can, we will, we have, and we do... if needed and if we want to...
Some do; some don't; same for men.

Our potential has always been there. It is a part of human nature.

It has been so noted in history since the dawn of human records.

Women have the human capacity of warrior... even though it is not our gender instinct to do so. Ask any of the women serving in the military or police forces of countries around the world. Some are better than others; same with men.

Men have the human capacity to nuture and nest build... even though it is not their gender instinct to do so. Ask any man with children and no help... who's wife is disabled, who is a widower, or is divorced with custody of his children. Some are better than others; same with women.

Gender instinct is not constructed with titanium.

In the modern age a man or a woman can climb into a fighter or bomber and with human intellect, and trained and practiced skill, deliver equally crushing blows to the enemy. There is no such thing as an estrogen bomb or a testosterone bomb... bombs and bullets don't have gender issues... they are equal opportunity devices... which are better given, than received.

History of Women in the Military

The history of women in the military is one that extends over 4000 years into the past, and throughout a vast number of cultures and nations. Women have played many roles in the military, from ancient warrior women, to the women currently serving in the Iraq War.

Although the role of women in the military, particularly in combat, has been a controversial one beginning in the medieval era. Despite various roles in the armies of past societies, it is only recently that women have begun to be given a more prominent role in contemporary armed forces. As increasing numbers of countries begin to expand the role of women in their militaries, the debate continues.

The above is referenced HERE.

TIGERESS

Boroda · « **Reply #26 on:** October 17, 2007, 12:22:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
course... after the war was over and the soviets had enough men pilots to go around... there were no women fighter pilots. None in korea and none in vietnam.

Well we had first two woman-cosmonauts, Tereshkova was a skydiver, Savitskaya was a professional pilot, held several world records flying fighter-planes like E-266 (MiG-25).

Boroda · « **Reply #27 on:** October 17, 2007, 12:29:02 PM »

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Originally posted by Tigeress
Pryvet Boroda, Rada tebya videt!

Do you know of the WWII story of Alexandra Roschupkina?

Pa-ka! Uvidimsia!

Could be nice to meet you too

I'll look for the name in Russian search engines. Our school had a small museum dedicated to Eugenia Rudneva, Hero of Soviet Union, killed in action... It's a shame that with a "liberty" and "democracy" they closed it. I hope that a memorial to our graduates who were killed in a War is still there.

Tigeress · « **Reply #28 on:** October 17, 2007, 01:13:02 PM »

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Originally posted by Boroda
Could be nice to meet you too

I'll look for the name in Russian search engines. Our school had a small museum dedicated to Eugenia Rudneva, Hero of Soviet Union, killed in action... It's a shame that with a "liberty" and "democracy" they closed it. I hope that a memorial to our graduates who were killed in a War is still there.

Alexandra Roschupkina was a tractor driver who wanted to fight the Nazis at the front lines.

She became a tank driver and was a Hero.

She was denied the honor of serving her country at the front by the army because she was female.

Not to be deprived of fighting against the invading Nazis, she did the only thing she could think of that she could to do. She disguised herself so she looked male enough to slip through and gave the name Alexander Roschupkina to the army.

She was accepted and fought to protect her Motherland for three years in battle... until she was badly wounded. Only one person, a male army doctor who first examined her, ever knew her secret until she was wounded. She had begged him to keep her secret which he reluctantly did. She lived in greater fear of being discovered than of dying. Unfortunately for her she was wounded in the lower abdomen.

Alexandra married after the war but because of her war wound... she was childless. She is alive today at the age of 93.

This is a recent photo of Alexandra today.

It is unfortunate that changes of government can cause erasure such as the closing of your museum for this brave Hero of the Soviet Union, Eugenia Rudneva.

She is a hero for her people and her Motherland... someone to be proud of and to remember for her acts of bravery and sacrifice against the Nazis during the USSR's Great Patriotic War.

The Russian women who fought and died are also my heros.
I can not express how deeply proud of them I am.

My favorite fighter plane is the Lavochkin La-5/La-7. If I could, I would put a white lily on mine as a to Lilya and all the brave Russian women who fought in the war.

A personal story for you...

When I first came to Aces High there was a man who's callsign was NoLoZone. He had an h2h arena and I flew in it... in my La-7.

He got to know me enough to know I never quit a fight and always came back. He always shot me down.

One day I took off in my La-7. When he saw me coming he commented "I am going to take that Russian B*tch Down!"

I smiled. He did that day... and many days after that... but finally one day, I met him in the sky, one on one, and I sent him away with a disabled fighter.

This Russian B*tch finally beat him! and I did not loose to him again.
I am not of Russian blood... but of Russian Spirit, I am.

TIGERESS

lazs2 · « **Reply #29 on:** October 17, 2007, 02:19:49 PM »

Ok... so how many women fighter pilots in russia... or anywhere else.. shot down planes after WWII... a cosmonaut would be about like our astronauts I would think... just meat along for the ride.. we used monkeys mostly at first.

no army that is not desperate for cannon fodder would... or even should... use women in combat roles. If you are short on humanity or simply desperate then... yeah.. they can stop a bullet too.

If you look at the armies that used women you will see what I mean about lacking humanity or simply desperate with no other resources.

lazs