Author Topic: WTG No Knock (Read 7291 times)

Chairboy · « **Reply #120 on:** December 14, 2006, 03:52:49 PM »

Criminals should have _NO_ rights?

I know this whole constitution thing keeps getting in the way of orderly police work, tell me more.

bsdaddict · « **Reply #121 on:** December 14, 2006, 04:00:06 PM »

too true, Chairboy. there's this concept of "innocent until proven guilty" that some people sound like they'd be happy to do away with...

Shuffler · « **Reply #122 on:** December 14, 2006, 04:06:54 PM »

yes there are some bleeding heart liberals out there that think when someone is caught red handed.... they may not be guilty.

MotorOil1 · « **Reply #123 on:** December 14, 2006, 04:14:53 PM »

That's always the challenge, how do you arrest someone and do it safely. People are unpredictable.

Couple years ago now we had 4 RCMP walk up on a farm to question a suspect, the guy pulls out a high powered rifle, catches the offices off guard and ends up killing all 4. Then he kills himself.

Who's the victum there right?

x0847Marine · « **Reply #124 on:** December 14, 2006, 05:23:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
motor oil... seriously... when was the last time a hells angel looked at some cops face and then followed em home and killed em?

lazs

You only need to look at their jacket; an upside down police patch denotes the rape of a female officer, a badge or replica upside down means the officer is dead.

Some "masks", like the one I had, was fire / knife resistant and protected my face & eyes... which was nice to have when we're tossing flash bangs and 40MM stinger grenades, 1 pellet in the face feels like a hammer blow, and blinding yourself with a flash bang is a bad thing.

Cops gear up for their safety and protection, not peanut gallery citizen fashon approval... if citizens got to choose police gear guys would be wearing pink shorts armed with supersoakers and nerf batons.

Besides that most every Dept abides by the methodology of "Sir Robert Peel", AKA the father of modern law enforcement... where an officer can be positively ID'd by badge number, name tag or both.. making a mask just another piece of safety equipment, and irrelevant.

Heres some police trivia:
The term "Cop" is short for "Chief of Police"
"Sheriff" comes from old England, the town was known as a "Shire" and the local cop the "Rieve", AKA "Shire Rieve" which we turned into "Sheriff".
The code of hammurabi is the source of much of our current legal system, except for the tossing people in the river stuff.

x0847Marine · « **Reply #125 on:** December 14, 2006, 05:34:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MotorOil1
That's always the challenge, how do you arrest someone and do it safely. People are unpredictable.

Couple years ago now we had 4 RCMP walk up on a farm to question a suspect, the guy pulls out a high powered rifle, catches the offices off guard and ends up killing all 4. Then he kills himself.

Who's the victum there right?

In the academy we learned of an LA Deputy Sheriff who responded to a "check the welfare" call of en elderly man who had not been herd from, a Korea / Nam war vet. 9 ot of 10 times its dead body retrieval. Upon entering the Apt the old man, suffering from dementia and totally insane, was lying in wait and ambushed the Deputy, shooting him dead.

My 1st shooting resulted from an every day seemingly dull "loud music" call, my 2nd shooting, and the 1960's LA riots, both started with a "routine" traffic stop.

The list goes on and on, and is worse since the three strikes law, desperate people do desperate things and a 2 striker looking at 25 to life for a low weight felony has every reason to put up a furious fight, and they do.

bsdaddict · « **Reply #126 on:** December 14, 2006, 05:44:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Shuffler
yes there are some bleeding heart liberals out there that think when someone is caught red handed.... they may not be guilty.

what conversation are you taking part in? we're talking about no-knock raids, there's no "red handed" anything going on, 'cept mebbe sleeping...

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #127 on:** December 14, 2006, 06:38:54 PM »

You were doing half assed X0847, until you got to this line:

Quote

The code of hammurabi is the source of much of our current legal system, except for the tossing people in the river stuff.

And totally made a fool of yourself.

moot · « **Reply #128 on:** December 15, 2006, 07:00:12 AM »

Are you saying it's worth more to this thread of discussion to prove him wrong, rather than prove why/how what he suggested is flawed?

Who gives a crap what sort of fool anyone is, so long as they happen to correctly utter the correct answer to a given problem?

lazs2 · « **Reply #129 on:** December 15, 2006, 08:34:46 AM »

motor oil... you are not a doctor.. You are not a soldier in a war zone either..

And that is the problem...you think you are. You are not fighting other soldiers you are attacking US citizens... not sadam.

you can't think of a time a cop was followed home and killed because.... because of your masks? LOL... it never happened masks or not. if someone wanted to kill you the masks would not make any difference... you wear the masks for protection and or because you are ashamed of what you do... protection is fine. shame is not...you sound like you need to be a little ashamed... most Americans are ashamed for you.

Don't believe it? the show "swat" had to be pulled... it made people queazy and they tuned out in droves. What you do does and should make any freedom loving American scared.

Look at who you hang out with...look at the paramilitary trainining and mind set.... look at what you are becomeing. you are not soldiers. or... you shouldn't be. we don't need soldier squads in the US raiding homes with military tactics... we don't need isolated elite forces.

xmarine... cops are killed on the job... raped? no men cops were raped I don't believe. We are talking about being followed home for revenge... this, it it happens at all... happens to cops for minor arrests or randomly... would you suggest that all cops wear masks at every arrest?

I think most cops are dedicated and good people. I think they have a tough job and too much regulation and I commend them. I talk and joke with em all the time.. trying to talk to the "elite" storm troopers tho is a waste.. it is something you feel when trying to talk to em... a detachment... like that of every sqaud of storm troopers from the beggining of time.

I have no use for the paramilitary no knock storm troopers who are ashamed to show themselves and their faces in broad daylight even when they have a 40/1 advantage.

And how many of these paramilitary groups do we need? one for each town? and what do they do to justify their existence? one raid a year is hard to justify so... they lower the standard and maybe get 1 a month... still... we all know that they are pretty much a waste of money so... they do things like fight to not allow beat cops to have rifles so that their group has to be called... soon...

The potential for abuse is too high... it was a huge mistake.

Raise the physical and training standards for normal cops and get rid of the paramiliutary ones.

lazs

Charon · « **Reply #130 on:** December 15, 2006, 09:48:26 AM »

It's really odd. I was watching that show First 48 or some such name last night, where they follow detectives in the first 48 hours of a killing. In one case, an ex boyfirend with a history of violence shoots the woman in the head after a premediated encounter (he said he would do it the day before) and while leaving takes the time to shoot her 2-year-old daughter twice, killing her. About the perfenct definition of armed and dangerous.

Yet, at several points the detectives, with some light backup of uniformed officers, searched suspected houses where he might be hiding. No SWAT, just pistols and shotguns.

Of course, here in Chicago the Gurnee Illinois PD, in what was apparently a SWAT action, just raided the home of a Chicago Bear, Tank Johnson, all to get him on 6 misdemeanor weapons violations (not violations in the other 49 states, btw) and bust a friend who was staying there for felony Marijuana possession (over 2 ounces). Johnson's girlfriend and two infant children were at home.

A big media event for the Gurnee PD. Here's how it went down according to the Tribune:

Quote

Gurnee police and officers from the Northern Illinois Police Alarm System descended on the home about 11 a.m. with shields and armored vehicles, alarming neighbors, some of whom police had asked to evacuate the neighborhood.

An explosion was heard, rattling neighbors' homes, which police said was used as a diversionary tactic because of the threat of weapons being used during the raid.

"We knew there were weapons in the house . . . we also knew there were more than likely people in the house so we did not know what we would encounter," Jones said. "The officers took the necessary precautions for their safety and the safety of the neighborhood."

Personally, I call BS on this one. IMO, just an excuse for publicity and to use the toys. Was Tank harboring Tony Montana? Was there really that expectation of possible violence, or just a photo op where the "Alarm Squad" could have created a tragic accident? Couldn't you have just busted the friend on his way to get a burger or some such thing (Isolated, in an aread of your choosing), then entered the house with a warrant and without all the theater? My guess would be yes.

Charon

john9001 · « **Reply #131 on:** December 15, 2006, 11:54:29 AM »

masks make them look like NINJAS.

and ninjas are super bad, they will flip out and cut off peoples heads. or break down your door, throw "flash bangs" and shoot you.

lazs2 · « **Reply #132 on:** December 15, 2006, 02:08:41 PM »

exactly charon... real cops don't need to hide behind masks to do their job. they face real danger every time they go to a domestic dispute or pull over a car... should they call swat for all these things?

You are correct that swat is called simply to justify swat. these guys really aren't needed in 99% of the cases and just make the whole situation a lot worse.

neither waco or ruby ridge would have happened without the paramilitary hut hut boys getting involved... any local sherriff would have done a lot better job without killing a bunch of innocent citizens and terrorizing Americans.

lazs

Sixpence · « **Reply #133 on:** December 15, 2006, 02:11:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MotorOil1

You need to analyse the mistakes and correct them.

Yeah, knock

When you find Osama or the residence you think he's at you should just gather around in a suit and tie, knock and politely ask him to come out, so no one gets hurt. That might work.

Comparing bin laden to a citizen smoking pot, what's next, linking the baseball steroid scandal and terrorism?

lazs2 · « **Reply #134 on:** December 15, 2006, 02:17:24 PM »

yep six... these guys don't think they are cops anymore. They think they are some sort of military elite organization who are fighting some sort of evil foriegn country... they think they are soldiers... they will even say so to your face.

there are reasons why we don't let soldiers knock down doors in the middle of the night.

To compare what our brave soldiers in iraq are doing with what these ninja squads are doing is laughable. It takes maybe 40 of these guys to equal one 50 year old Texas ranger in my opinion. To compare the threat of actual combat to breaking into citizens homes with massive forces is an insult to real troops.

lazs