Author Topic: WTG No Knock  (Read 7287 times)

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #150 on: April 26, 2007, 11:07:40 PM »
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those LEOs got off easy. There isn't a punishment severe enough for them, IMHO.


Police officers who break the law should be punished far more severely than Jane/Joe citizen imo simply because they are paid to uphold the law, not break it.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #151 on: April 27, 2007, 09:52:11 AM »
well.. I have said over and over that I have nothing but respect for the average beat cop.   He goes into danger every day.

He doesn't hide behind a mask and for the most part... he acts like an employee of the people and treats citizens with respect.   He doesn't even draw his gun in situations where I would be nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

He is to be respected...  he solves problems not creates them.

If we had let the old sheriff take care of the "problem" at waco we wouldn't have 80 or so dead citizens.

Once you form a paramilitary elite force who hides in the dead of night behind masks... you start having problems... when the press is kept away from what they are doing..  like at waco...

So far as drugs are concerned... I say there are only so many addicts.. there will be that many no matter what...  I say sell heroin on the shelf for $5 a pound or whatever it takes to make it.   You and I won't buy it no matter how cheap it is but... we won't get burglarized or mugged to so some addict can buy it anymore and...

We won't need a paramilitary ninja squad in every town to take down the guys making a fortune on the war on drugs.   We won't have to pay em either and we won't have to put up with their arrogance and blunders.

We can put real violent criminals in cells vacated by addicts and former drug dealers.

lazs

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #152 on: April 27, 2007, 10:46:41 AM »
^^ What he said. ^^
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Offline VOR

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« Reply #153 on: April 27, 2007, 10:57:41 AM »
Yup.

Offline Sting138

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« Reply #154 on: April 27, 2007, 01:09:18 PM »
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
Check out case law \
And its clear you've never once been to a ghetto dope haven apt complex where you find medicine cabinets / posters / framed pictures that are open holes to the apartment next door.. announce "we're here" and in less than a min the bag of dope will be 3 apartments over before some 10 year old kid rides off with it in a backpack waiving "hi po-lice" at the police cars.

Or you might see a dog haul bellybutton out the back window wearing a diggie back pack, trained to run 2 miles through houses, under fences to a safe house. Ever seen the "poof" of dope hitting an industrial fan?... try collecting it after that.

Dope dealers have refined their profession too, they have a dozen ways they are ready to make the evidence vanish in a split second which is why "no knock" warrants exist.


BUT...... Does this give them the reason to kill an 88 year old lady without VERIFYING that the claim that drugs were actually sold at that house was legitimate?

In two words...


HELL NO!


Cops got shot, its what they deserve! The old lady on the other hand didnt deserve to die DEFENDING HER HOME because some numbskull judge issued a warrant on the information given by some crack addict and served by a bunch of GUNG HO COPS in Ninja Suits with itchy trigger fingers that dont know how to KNOCK AND ANNOUNCE!!!
« Last Edit: April 27, 2007, 01:15:28 PM by Sting138 »

Offline Pooh21

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« Reply #155 on: April 27, 2007, 06:20:23 PM »
Speaking of Highly trained Ninj0rs

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Offline john9001

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« Reply #156 on: April 27, 2007, 06:28:15 PM »
"Felton said Friday that a police tear gas round that landed on a bedspread appears to have started the fire."

impossible, tear gas will not start fires, thats what the FBI said at Waco.

Offline BluKitty

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« Reply #157 on: April 28, 2007, 12:43:59 AM »
Everything in life is a matter of priorities.... what matters more?

In this light, the so called "War on drugs" is a travisty and is largly responsiable for this pathatic degradation of rights and poorly planned and executed police practices.

While some police work has gotten better, other areas have gotten worse....It's not exactly the days of Police Reports that read : S.S.S.S (Saw Suspect Shot Same), but this is very bad... and I have experienced similar frist hand....

          One evening in the early 90's when I was like 11 years old or so we got a loud knock on the front door, then another even louder... my dad had his headphones on listening to a Spurs game, and he's kind of hard of hearing anyway... so my sister goes to open the door as my mom and I are coming up the hall to the front of the house to see what all this noise is about.  As she opens the door, my sister gets flung back about 8-10 feet to the upright piano and bench and falls onto it and the bench.  Some crazy guy with a big white Texas mustache and some piece of paper comes charging into our living room...
         
 By this time my mother and I get to the living room and my dad has noticed what it happening...I notice the 4  or so men behind him on our porch, a couple of them with some rather large guns, ... seemed like an assualt rifle to me, but I didn't know much about such guns at that age, but my memory put's a m-16 or m-4 there.  So this 'crazy' guy starts rambling on about two guys he's looking for and waving around what I guess was some kind of wanted poster, or something,... there was a picture of two guys on it that I'd never seen, and of course didn't look like anyone I knew.  I notice he has a badge of some sort, but not the shield I was used to seeing on cops (it was the Bexar county sheriff)...  
           
So then my dad, with palms showing, approaches him and asks what this is all about. The sheriff talks about how he has a warrent for an address number that matches ours, but a street I've never heard of before.  My dad attempts to explain that he has the wrong street, even though the number is the same....  The sheriff keeps asking about these guys as I notice other men with guns patroling the sides of our home.  My dad countinues to explain that he has the wrong house as a couple of more guys enter our house, one with a big gun.  They glance around our living room dining room and the hallway.  
             
After another a minute or two, and a bunch of questions I don't recall, a local typical uniformed cop arrives.  He makes his way through the men with guns to our living room and his explanation makes it clear to the sheriff that they have the wrong street. (I guess they couldn't even check the street signs, it is the second house from the corner).  Anyway , a uniformed officers word seemed to finally convince them and they began to remove themselves from our home.  However, on the way out, the sheriff still had the audacity to ask "have you seen these men?".
           
My sister was left with bruises from the experiance, being thrown back onto the piano and bench.  I later discovered they had invaded the nehibors yards as well.  Luckily they didn't invade the guest house where my visiting grandfather was.  He is a retired bigtime cop for PA, I'm not sure if he would have been as.... understanding as my father (he is my mothers father) We never told my grandfather about it....
           
The house they had a warrent for we drove by a few months later just to try to understand (my parents proably dove by it before that, but it did help give me some peace of mind to understand...still a stupid mistake they made).  The street they were looking for was across a set of railroad tracks, where there is no crossing... very residential.  So the streets changes names at the tracks.... and heance there is another house with the same number "down the street" from where I grew up; accross the tracks and few more blocks.  So they misread the map, and never even bothered to look at the street signs... like I said, it's the second house from the corner, and it has a sign.
           
To further explain how stupid it is in a 'class' context, though I try not to be a 'classist' or 'eliteist'....  you never see such things in the type of nehiborhood I grew up in.  One of our nehibors yards they invaded was Col. Fuller's house, before he died(look him up with the battle of the bulge).  I only barely remember his widow.  But the pecan he planted in 1941 is AMAZING!  It then belonged to a young couple with two very young daughters.  I could proably name some other nehibors and have many texans know thier names.... but I say this to explain, raiding my families home like that was a horrible lapse of common sense and judgement.
           
          This was bad enough as it was, if they had invaded my families home at 3am, I'm not sure my father wouldn't have found his .45 and shot them.  It was only a couple of years before that we had been robbed, of family hierlooms from Germany, cameras, guns... and other random things.... we weren't exactly comfortable with people breaking in...and my father is hard of hearing.....

         While my experiance was horrible IMHO and even THAT should be improved upon.... what is considered ok in a modren sense is pathetic.... and I fear if such policies had been in place when this happend to my family.... I wouldn't have the wonderful father I do........

You cops can tell me your experiance all you want.... but these methods are VERY, VERY bad....  What I've experianced was bad enough.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2007, 01:22:31 AM by BluKitty »

Offline -Concho-

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« Reply #158 on: April 28, 2007, 08:04:17 AM »
A magistrate signed that warrant, so someone besides the cops thought it was a good idea.

No knocks are used for violent people 9 to 99 years of age, sounds like the system works to me.

Offline Shamus

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« Reply #159 on: April 28, 2007, 09:38:47 AM »
Maybe if the magistrate hadn't been lied to in the affidavit he wouldn't have signed the warrant.

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Offline -Concho-

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« Reply #160 on: April 28, 2007, 01:38:14 PM »
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Originally posted by Shamus
Maybe if the magistrate hadn't been lied to in the affidavit he wouldn't have signed the warrant.

shamus


How do you know he/she was lied to?

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #161 on: April 28, 2007, 01:56:57 PM »
Concho,

That was one of the charges that they plead to IIRC from the article. They plead to lying about having a informant for that address.
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Offline x0847Marine

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« Reply #162 on: April 28, 2007, 02:29:22 PM »
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Originally posted by -Concho-
A magistrate signed that warrant, so someone besides the cops thought it was a good idea.

No knocks are used for violent people 9 to 99 years of age, sounds like the system works to me.


Magistrates, or judges will sign almost ANYTHING... especially after hours. If we needed an after hour warrant we had to drive to the on call judges house... maybe his honor was 3 sheets to the wind, busy playing cards, or entertaining a hooker... after a quick review, its raise your right hand and swear the affidavit is "true and correct", and that's it.. we had legal permission to boot down your door. I cant ever remember one being denied.

Its scary easy.

Depts have different standards though, even as lowly patrol slugs we had the 'freedom' to hand write warrants and get them signed at our discretion after running it by a supervisor... at other depts warrants are the domain of detectives only.

Offline VOR

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« Reply #163 on: April 28, 2007, 02:55:05 PM »
Sounds like Training Day.

Offline -Concho-

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« Reply #164 on: April 28, 2007, 04:28:31 PM »
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Originally posted by Maverick
Concho,

That was one of the charges that they plead to IIRC from the article. They plead to lying about having a informant for that address.


Thanks Mav.

It's not that easy around here, to get a no knock you have to prove the subject is violent.

I went with criminal itel to pick up a guy on a warrant last week for ag assault on a police officer, we couldn't even get a no knock for that.