Testing Capture system in LW orange today

[Oleg]

Originally posted by Schatzi
Id like to see more then one base capturable per front. Im not much a fan of flying in the horde - to many greens around are not my thing. With the new set up, fights are even more concentrated.... no "satellite attacks" on surrounding bases.

Other then that, i think the setup could work out well.

Ppl who just want to fight can do it between any 2 field, so i hope its not a big problem (i dont like to fly in overpopulated areas as well). The more ppl in arena, the more likely "side" fights will happens.

[Oleg]

Originally posted by Niros
Support only.

Niros
Hope you are wrong, they deserve better role.
In overpopulated area CV will not survive any long, but in any other places it will useless.

[SlapShot]

Geeezz guys take it somewhere else if you please, some of us are trying to figure this out and make it better than what it is now. We know it has problems and I would assume HT and crew are trying to ajust things to take care of them...

Yes ... this should be the main objective of this thread ... not a Furball vs Strat thread nor a fractured History lesson.

How about the system select the first bases that are capturable and draw a blue line between them. When that base is captured, then blue lines are drawn to any base that is contained in a sector that abuts the sector of the field that you just captured and they become captureable.

In Flayed's last picture the attack route (single blue line) starts with going from 7,16 to 8,16.

Once the field in 8,16 is taken, blue lines are drawn to fields in 9,16 - 9,17 - 8,17 .

Now, if the the field in 8,17 is taken, then the blue lines are drawn to the fields in 9,16 - 8,18 - 7,17 - 7,18.

This would create a growing a "spider" web front. This still keeps the front focused to a "general" area of sectors and not just focused on a base to base front.

Wish I had a place to host a picture such as Flayed's to illustrate.

PS ... as far a CVs go ... once a CV enters a sector where there is a field, a blue line should be drawn from the CV to the field in that sector and that field becomes captureable ... and not show as a BIG icon. This way CVs can be used to create different fronts in a stealthy manner ... as it should be.

[Donzo]

Originally posted by Simaril
The point of the game is not to capture, which would put the Air to Air guys in the "wrong". It is to have fun FIGHTING -- in HiTech's words, "to promote combat." The "war" gives context for the fighting to take place, but the war isnt the main point of AH.

"Capturing territory through the use of air, land and sea power is the objective of Aces High."

This is straight from the help file.   HTC, should this be updated?

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Donzo
"Capturing territory through the use of air, land and sea power is the objective of Aces High."

This is straight from the help file.   HTC, should this be updated?

Let's be honest....as the pre-firefox spelling skill shows, as a linguist, HiTech is a very good programmer.    


He's clearly said, though, that the goal of the game is to have fun while fighting in the style you enjoy best. That means that if you like fighting for a base, or defending it -- GO FOR IT! If you enjoy fighting as a contest of skill -- GO FOR IT!

This test, he's clearly said, is an attempt to get both those styles fighting near the same bases. It ought to bring our activities together, not divide us.


The ONLY thing that's fundamentally lost is the ability to attack an undefended base. Is that REALLY what some are missing?

[thndregg]

So, to slither, sneak, to seek covertly, is absolutely 100% not okay-- is what I gather.


Next week's issue: How to stop spying.

[Flayed1]

Yes slap I agree on the CV Idea they would be likea a wild card for each country.  If you manage to take an NME field then you could start picking away at that spot on the line.  Or if we had a branching system of lines and some were on the coast these would make for a bigger more tasty target. Just a bit more intelligent thinking then just send the CV to the closest base.


  I also had another thought on the branching lines.  I know some people like the longer NOE runs I know I do, so what hapenes if you made the bases that fork KEY bases that could be recaptured even after the NME has moved past them.  They then would have to come back and take care of the problem befor moving on. This would make them extreamly important to your war effort and a major target for the defending country. Though this may open up to many fronts from what HT was saying.

  HT really looking at it I think really to make use of CV's and to have a little more thought in game we will need a bit more than a 2 bases one each side to attack per front. not to meantion The other problem with people not even having to look at the rest of their country for possible sneak attacks or runs on the factories.

   Oh and here you go slap try this. http://photobucket.com/

[Schatzi]

Originally posted by Oleg
Ppl who just want to fight can do it between any 2 field, so i hope its not a big problem (i dont like to fly in overpopulated areas as well). The more ppl in arena, the more likely "side" fights will happens.

People who want to fight can also do it in the DA, i know that.

"The more people in the Arena" is a bit of a problem for me, as im non-US.... The numbers are fairly low when im flying.

[Overlag]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
If you have a "battle" as I SAID, how can they land on them undefended?  

Normandy WAS defended.   Rommel did NOT listen to Hitler and increased coastal defenses in Normandy, contrary to Hitler's wishes.   HITLER and his minions THOUGHT they would hit Calais.  

Again, READ MORE with your buddy.

I'm not the one that said it was undefended.... it was under-defended maybe. But the point is, you choose the path of least resistance. Its the same for EVERY thing. Its human nature. If i was playing Red orchestra or DOD:S and came up to a heavily defended part of the map, id think about my options and maybe go around them or try and work out a way of gaining the advantage in the area by securing the flanks so we can attack from 2 sides. Some just run and gun into the area, die, and whine about campers, or in AH case, hordes/gangbangers.

if there's a hard base to capture, capturing a relatively under-defended base next to it would mean you had 2 bases close to it giving you a upper hand...... 2 bases vs 1 sort of thing.

again, its NOT the attackers fault no one defends.... With uber ack at bases, everyone expects the AI to defend for them.

I'm willing to bet if there was no ack at a field, more people would be up just defending there own airspace.

[DadRabit]

S!

Had a thought about the blue line system of base capture.  At the beginning of the war,  instead of one long line, make all or most front line bases capturable with blue lines leading from those bases to the next capturable base.  On a map the size of the current test map you could have maybe 5-7 different blue lines.  Imo this would open up more of the map and add more strategy.  Say for instance, well, if we go this way  we take a chance of leaving our left/right flank exposed……or we need to make it seem we are attacking over here just to throw off our main objective.  Just a thought.

I love this game but I have issues with some of the changes.  However, I’m not leaving.  I have too much fun in here and have a lot of friends that I enjoy fighting with and against.      
Don’t know where else I can get that for $15 a month.

S! all

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Simaril

The ONLY thing that's fundamentally lost is the ability to attack an undefended base. Is that REALLY what some are missing?

YES -

As I have written before, one very important part for my own gaming experience was not only the pure flying / fighting part itself. But also to scan the map, looking for clues were a possible threat is building up. Looking for hints on enemy NOE missions on remote fields. Examining flashing bases just to see it´s a surprise attack, resulting in being the being the lone defender  at a V field doging bombs in my tiger while calling for help. Maybe eventually succumbing to superior numbers. Fierce small-scale fights with a handful participants about a remote field, while the majority of people did the great "A1-A19" clash...

I did very rarely participate in such raids on "undefended fields", but I had tons of fun trying to bust them. Most undefended fields did not say undefended that long.

It is simply not true that "The ONLY thing that's fundamentally lost is the ability to attack an undefended base"

[Overlag]

exactly, its way to limited at the mo... I still think the "blueline" should be linked to the zone in some way.... if the strat is down, more bases are take-able. if its at 100% only 1 or 2 can be taken.

that way deep penertration raids of groups of buffs will become more "standard" as will the defence missions against them. since a whole country is limited to 2 bases, there should be more "spare" to take part in this part of the game.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by twitchy
I'm the CO of The Pigs On The Wing, alot of you new guys won't remember our glory days, but there were times when I led the Pigs to take 15-20 bases sometimes in a night. Ask Moil, he'll tell you what we were.
We sure as hell didn't avoid fighting to take those bases, lest you forget names like hylandr, citation and seraphim spanking your butts and all those Oinks on channel 1.
We took bases, and we were damned good at it.

Listen, I know this may arrive as some surprise to some of you guys, but perhaps you should know that angry little feeling you get when you see some red dots on your map racing along to your flank to capture a base where you aren't at, is the self same angry little feeling we get when we call on channel that we have deacked and busted the town at a base and need help with the cap and none of you guys show up.
For alot of us, alot more of us than you think, dogfighting is just one aspect of the game.
No we don't avoid dog fighting anymore than you guys do, it just isn't all we do, and it sure isn't what we want to be limited to.


 
Capturing without combat is called "Lack of Defense".
Combat without Objectives and Goals is Pointless.
Furballing for Hours over the Same Blue Strings is More Pointless.
Requiring others to furball over the Same Blue Strings with you is Absurd.

Tried it your way last night Twitchy.  That is, working on the premise it's the other guys fault it's not defended.

Went into MW for a change.  Went low numbers country as I usually do.  Checked the map and noticed a dar bar way away from the main fighting and one of our bases flashing.  Up I went grabbing like mad in my 38G.  

They of course were already at alt so getting to them with any kind of equal alt wasn't going to happen.  No way I can stop the initial hitting of the field.  There are 4 of them and 1 of me.  They are of course in 190s, Tiffie and an LA5.  They pass right by me to get all the acks down. and the VH.  I get a couple before they get me.  Tough to win a 4 on 1 consistantly in particular when they are all running in for the HO's with their cannons.  

But the others are RTB so i up again as more are inbound.  I think in the end it was me against 5-6 guys.  It's a fairly steady stream though.  This time there are Lancs included.  I get credit for 4 this flight although two are proxies cause they augered on their dive bombing runs.  I end up getting ganged again.  By this time the VH is down, acks are down and the vulch pattern is there.  I try and up a couple times as they are working the town and the next nearest field is too far away so any hope I have of holding it is slim.  Something about getting vulched kinda takes the fun out of things, but Ive got your arguement in the back of my mind so I try again and get vulched one more time.  Then the FH's go down.  All this time my countrymen are running their mishuns to take other fields elsewhere so there is no other help.  (MW numbers being what they are)

I gave it my best shot, but numbers what they were, it was inevitable that I would have little chance.

Your arguement would be that it's my teams fault for not defending.  With numbers as they were and often are in the arenas, how would you suggest we handle it?  

To me it's an example of why HTC is trying to come up with a solution to give everyone a chance to have fun, cause I'll tell ya, trying to defend when you have no chance is about as much fun as root canal.  And while it was 5-6 v 1 in MW, imagine with LW numbers that being 25-5 or something similar.  Still not going to be much fun for the guys trying to defend.  Since it's a game, the ' its war' argument doesn't work for me.

At least in this set up the forces have some chance and parity where the defenders can focus their efforts on a certain front and give it some purpose to going up to defend.

Does it need tweaking.  Clearly folks are seeing potential ways to do this.

But it's still better then the status quo.

[vizwhiz]

Originally posted by Simaril
Twitchy:

The "pointless" jab was an attempt to be cutesy, but when you're worked up I could see it sounding inflammatory. Sorry for that, never my intent.
You're worked up, and you're PO'd. Been there, done that. Slow down a sec, though.

I've never said that capturing bases or winning the war is bad. Far from it -- without that structure, this game would get old really fast. There is a reason we dont play in another game's dogfight arenas....

All the same, COMBAT -- not capture -- is the goal of the game. Just like I'd never want to tell you how to play, you shouldnt really expect to tell others how to play -- so you shouldnt get mad when nobody cares about taking the base the Pigs have prepped. And you shouldnt EXPECT others to care about defending a base.

HT is trying an experiment that's designed to get the guys who want to fight A2A into the same zones as the guys who want to capture. That's it, nothing more. It's not pro-furballer or anti-landgrabber.

==============
I think this was well said.  Having A2A mixed up with the gv's and the bombers makes for a lot of fun targets and challenging flying...

For example: I'm too far from the hoard to engage in a dogfight, but look, there's a formation of bombers coming in - I'll get a fight anyway.

I just think they need to open it up somehow to more than one front per country intersection...just for a change of pace...I get shot down a lot (newb!), but sometimes I'd like to get shot down by somebody different!

Seriously, though, it can be tough to pick out the other newbs out there (that I can take out) when there is only one place to fight, loaded with the top gunners.  

Having a lot of fun, nonetheless...

[1Boner]

Originally posted by Lusche
YES -

As I have written before, one very important part for my own gaming experience was not only the pure flying / fighting part itself. But also to scan the map, looking for clues were a possible threat is building up. Looking for hints on enemy NOE missions on remote fields. Examining flashing bases just to see it´s a surprise attack, resulting in being the being the lone defender  at a V field doging bombs in my tiger while calling for help. Maybe eventually succumbing to superior numbers. Fierce small-scale fights with a handful participants about a remote field, while the majority of people did the great "A1-A19" clash...

I did very rarely participate in such raids on "undefended fields", but I had tons of fun trying to bust them. Most undefended fields did not say undefended that long.

It is simply not true that "The ONLY thing that's fundamentally lost is the ability to attack an undefended base"

  well said lusche!!!!!  there IS alot more to it!!

surprise attacks  (like pearl harbor) lead to more fights ,rather than everyone banging heads over the same couple of bases all day.