take the challenge and speak the blasphemy

[sluggish]

It seems to me that the fire and brimstone that people are calling on here to prove that god is angry and vengeful is from the Olde Testament; the Hebrew Bible.  If I remember correctly, Jesus being nailed to the cross fulfilled the prophesy and answered the Law of Moses, relieving those who accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior from abiding by it (or some such other silliness...).  Remember that the Law of Moses and the Ten Commandments are two different things…

The people who we should ask about a vengeful god are his chosen people (Jews).  I would personally like to open that discussion by asking, what's with all that crazy Leviticus stuff?

[sluggish]

Laz-

The whole effort of the sincere man is to erect his personal impressions into law.

[dmf]

Originally posted by wrag
I've wanted to respond to your postings....................

It's just my opinion, do I see bitterness? Perhaps some anger?

I want to say that the answers to your questions are contained within the book you say you read and got the information from.  

The questions you are asking SUGGESTS ........ didn't actually read it? skiped around and only read certain parts?

Hmmm........... I do see a "you people"  within the posting. That suggest to me that your mind is already made up.

I can't have bitterness or anger towards something that doesn't exist, so no theres none there, I just don't understand how anybody in a modern age can follow something so blindly.

Yes I have read the bible, from Genesis to Revelation, my grandmother made us read it from cover to cover, not some modern worded bible either, I mean the good old King James version, every Sunday for 2 hours a day, and my mom couldn't do anything about it caise shes scared to death of my grandmother.

Yes my mind is made up, if there is a god out there somewhere, he's not what you think he is.

[Vudak]

Originally posted by lazs2
vudak.. you are probly correct in saying that there has to be some balance in religion and those who bash it... that does not negate what I said tho.  While I would not want to see any religion get too powerful or have control of me.. I still feel that those who bash it.. who bash the rank and file religious with little kid sarcasm are pretty pitiful.

and lasersailor... no... every bad thing that ever happened is not because of religion..  some of the worst men of all times were athiests like the commies or simply insane and power hungry like hitler.   All the bad things happen about 90% of the time because of overpopulation.   Religion has been used as an excuse for some to act the way they do tho in a lot of the "bad" cases.

All intolerant religions are evil in my opinion but... secular people can be intolerant to an even greater degree and in a wider variety of things... never know what will set off a secular control freak.   If a man doesn't believe in god you can bet there is some nutball think he does believe in like socialism or bigfoot or aliens or man made global warming.... and you can bet he is gonna make bad things happen to me personaly because of his silly beliefs/religion.

The religion of the athiest is often a lot more dangerous to me on a personal level than the jehovas witness knocking at my door or trying to rid the library of some wicken book.

I fear the athiest more.

lazs

Lazs, you know, I honestly believe that people who seem to "bash" religion in here are only going after the hardcore religious nuts and not the everyday joe who just believes his thing and doesn't bother anyone.

I mean, I've made some pretty harsh "anti" Christian comments over the years, but I'm not trying to kill off the religion or anything.  I consider myself part of it.

But the facts are the facts.  And the evidence is what it is.  And those two things often don't back up religious myths.  So are people who realize this not supposed to say anything?

I understand your point about "little kid sarcasim," but with each passing day, believing the Bible to be a 100% accurate, definitive account, just seems to ask for sarcasim more and more.

I mean, almost all of us are guilty of sarcastically chiding the Muslim who believes in his 70-odd virgins or what not.  Why are some of the ideas expressed in the Bible any less ridiculous?

Is it bashing to ask this question?

Perhaps.

[lazs2]

sluggish..yes. I understand that.   I also understand tolerance.   As I said... I am not a christian but I would rather they be my enemy than the athiest with his myriad of beliefs...   the vengeful god of athiests is communism and man made global warming and socialism and in your face hedonism.

Their beliefs in those gods (and any one that pops up) are more of a danger to my personal freedom than true christian faith.   The bible doesn't create blue laws or dry counties or even ban dildos or porn for adults.   But the athiest does ban everything in sight based on socialism or man made global warming and big govenment... no christian ever made me wear a helmet or a seatbelt or told me what kinds of guns I could own or how many.

I fear the EPA and the alphabet soup ninja police and the IRS a lot more than I fear christians.

lazs

[lazs2]

vudak... you have a point and..  if that is what you like to do then have at it.

I find that peoples deeply held beliefs are a little sacred tho and, unless they are really anoying about it..... should be left alone.  When someone tells me they seen a ghost or an alien or whatever... I don't go into a big bashing fit over it.  Hell... they may even be right... How would I know?  

And that is the point.. we don't know.  If we can't prove someones faith wrong.. why bother to bash it?

Man made global warming on the other hand.. that is tailored to affect my life.  It's sole purpose is to gain power over us and give power to a few.

lazs

[Silat]

Originally posted by sluggish
It seems to me that the fire and brimstone that people are calling on here to prove that god is angry and vengeful is from the Olde Testament; the Hebrew Bible.  If I remember correctly, Jesus being nailed to the cross fulfilled the prophesy and answered the Law of Moses, relieving those who accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior from abiding by it (or some such other silliness...).  Remember that the Law of Moses and the Ten Commandments are two different things…

The people who we should ask about a vengeful god are his chosen people (Jews).  I would personally like to open that discussion by asking, what's with all that crazy Leviticus stuff?

Well first off the Christians believe in the new and the old. Secondly Jesus was a Jew and said he wasnt here to start a religion. His followers proceeded to start a religion after his death.

[Vudak]

I get what you're saying...  But the way I see it, I'm not trying to "bash" the faith so much as the mentality.

Because the way I see it, if you're willing to believe in something 100% despite all the evidence against it, you're a fanatic.

And we've seen what such types do to this world.

I'd venture to say that a Christian fanatic is no different as a person than an Islamic fanatic.  The only difference is the message in their books.

Granted, the Bible has a much nicer message.  But I often wonder what would the world be like if it didn't.

Seems like Jesus did a pretty good job afterall.

[storch]

what does Jesus himself say?  in Jesus' words the message was to be given to the jew first and then to greek in one account.  in another account the message was to be as it is, to all humanity.  in any event and in all accounts the Jesus is the bridge between fallen man and perfect God.  this is why he came.  the message is clear.  what the individual does with the message is between he and God.

[lazs2]

vudak...  I am not sure you see what I am saying..  In my opinion... I would no sooner go on a bashing tyrade against alien believers or bigfoot sighters than against christians...

I may make fun of a whole gathering if it were truly bizzare but...  neither I nor (I hope) you would say it to em face to face on a personal level...  First off... we, neither of us know for sure what is real or not...  second... why do it?

Now... it is much different when someone says that we have to do something in the name of god or.... well.... aliens or man made global warming...

Then it is time to bash.

The sniping tho is unworthy and cowardly.

lazs

[Vudak]

I'm going to bow out on this one, Lazs, but I will say that anything I'd type on here I'd definately say to someone's face...  For better or worse.

(Granted, I usually end up getting the worse )

But then again I don't really think I say anything all that bad on here, or in real life.  Shrug.

[lukster]

Originally posted by Vudak
I get what you're saying...  But the way I see it, I'm not trying to "bash" the faith so much as the mentality.

Because the way I see it, if you're willing to believe in something 100% despite all the evidence against it, you're a fanatic.

And we've seen what such types do to this world.

I'd venture to say that a Christian fanatic is no different as a person than an Islamic fanatic.  The only difference is the message in their books.

Granted, the Bible has a much nicer message.  But I often wonder what would the world be like if it didn't.

Seems like Jesus did a pretty good job afterall.

Your atheist fanatics like the communists however are in an altogether different category when it comes to brutality, imo.

[Vudak]

Originally posted by lukster
Your atheist fanatics like the communists however are in an altogether different category when it comes to brutality, imo.

I'll certainly give you that.

[wrag]

Originally posted by Vudak
I get what you're saying...  But the way I see it, I'm not trying to "bash" the faith so much as the mentality.

Because the way I see it, if you're willing to believe in something 100% despite all the evidence against it, you're a fanatic.

And we've seen what such types do to this world.

I'd venture to say that a Christian fanatic is no different as a person than an Islamic fanatic.  The only difference is the message in their books.

Granted, the Bible has a much nicer message.  But I often wonder what would the world be like if it didn't.

Seems like Jesus did a pretty good job afterall.

Hmmm .................... IMHO in this day and age I have difficulty believing a Christian fanatic would try to kill you for disagreeing.  But we are all intitled to our opinion.

As to believing 100% despite all the evidence against, doesn't that depend on what one calls evidence?

I've seen WAY too much of what many call scientific evidence become null and void far too many times!  THEY DON'T KNOW WAY TOO MUCH!  IMHO the things they don't know is far greater then the things they do know.  If they have no way to measure something, or can't even find out if it actually exist, then they make claims and put forward theroies.  Which are later often proven UNTRUE or INACCURATE.  One can have FAITH in their claims and theroies if one is so inclined.

I would also think much of what one believes resides within the life they have lived.

I further think that without the Christian religion we, all of us, would not be as free, equal, wealthy, healthy, etc.........

Much of our system and laws were founded on the Mosaic.  But again I'm stating an opinion here.

[wrag]

Originally posted by dmf
I can't have bitterness or anger towards something that doesn't exist, so no theres none there, I just don't understand how anybody in a modern age can follow something so blindly.

Yes I have read the bible, from Genesis to Revelation, my grandmother made us read it from cover to cover, not some modern worded bible either, I mean the good old King James version, every Sunday for 2 hours a day, and my mom couldn't do anything about it caise shes scared to death of my grandmother.

Yes my mind is made up, if there is a god out there somewhere, he's not what you think he is.

It is possible that because it was FORCED on you, allot didn't make sense or have any meaning.

IMHO forcing such on anyone is WRONG!

Modern?  Every age is a modern age for those living it! I mean after all it's all they got, right?   Blindly?  You have seen what other have seen?  You have lived as other have lived?  

IMHO you have every right to see things as you will, or choose, or the life you have lived seems to direct you.

By that same reasoning I MUST say to you, I hope you are not one of those that INSISTS that their beliefs and their way of viewing the world is the only CORRECT way.

As to what or who I think God is, how can you claim that God is not what I think God is?   As we have never discussed my beliefs.  You can read my mind?