Jeremy Clarkson-The Good The Bad The Ugly

[Mini D]

Originally posted by FastFwd
I agree with you entirely, Viking. This thread is about the Clarkson programme, and his comparison between various cars produced from different places around the world. I fail to see what I (or you, or anyone else) drive to be relevant to that discussion.

Then you haven't read many of viking's posts. Taking pride in never turning a wrench now? BWAHAHAHAHAHA! I bet he at least had to turn a screwedriver to get those tinted turnsignal lenses onto his car.

Clarkson's show was about stereotyping and trying to highlight those stereotypes. Does your choice in autos support those stereotypes? Do you own an engineering marvel that requires zero maintenance and outperforms anything made in America? Is your car tailored for EVERY road and does everything better than the cars made stateside? Well... what exactly do you own that supports Clarkson's findings, assumptions and exploitations? Is refusing to turn a wrench a typical European car owner stereotype?

Amazing how many things you completely ingore in leu of throwing the "original topic" back in as if it were some kind of defense.

[Mark Luper]

To me it's not a matter of societal standing what car one drives. It does tell me something about a person if they work on it themselves enough to understand what makes cars tick.  What modification will accomplish what item in the overall performance of their vehicle. Some of this is really very basic stuff but if you never work on a car you don't really have a grasp about what it's all about.

This thread started when someone posted a link to what I thought was a cool video of an individual comparing some cars and what He  thought about them. To agree or disagree with what he says requires some knowledge of what he speaks of. We all drive cars and some of us drive some pretty nice stuff, but if you don't know what makes it tick then how can you make an intelligent statement about it? It would be like me making an intelligent statement about astronomy or physics, I have'nt worked in those areas so really don't have a clue. I have made my living working on cars and have modified mine to suit me. I have an idea of what makes cars tick.

Now...as a disclaimer: I rarely work on them anymore. The fun is out of it for me now. I essentialy got burned out of it when I made my living out of my hobby.

Mark

[FastFwd]

Even people who do not work on cars are still entitled to hold an opinion about what's the best car - for them. It's called freedom of choice.

Few people know how cell phones work, much less how to build or repair one. MiniD's argument is like saying that the vast majority of cell phone users are not entitled to voice an opinion about which they think is the best model - for them.

[Skuzzy]

That is why there are qualified opinions, and unqualified opinions.  It appears yours is an unqualified opinion, by choice.

[eagl]

Ooooh!  Skuzzy from the top rope!

[Mini D]

Originally posted by FastFwd
MiniD's argument is like saying that the vast majority of cell phone users are not entitled to voice an opinion about which they think is the best model - for them.

Actually, it's nothing like that.

The fact that you even equate automobiles to something as disposable as a cell phone shows what you actually think about automobiles. I suppose it's conditioning.

[lazs2]

LOL.. won't even say what you drive fastfwd?   come on... don't be a wuss.. you certainly can't use the excuse that it would diminish your opinion..  I don't think anyone puts much weight in your opinion at this point.

So tell us... what do you drive?   A guy at work has a VW something turbo whatever.. he knows it is fast cause he has read all the reports on it..  he doesn't know how to open the hood on it tho.   I proved to him the other day that he doesn't know what "fast" is.   Another guy from these boards came to visit me in a subaru turbo thingie with the same attitude.   I let him drive my car.  It was "enlightening" for him.    I can slam your head into the passenger window in a turn and keep it there.   the car handles fine... better than you or I can use.    some race car drivers here could point out the flaws but you would never notice...

you have no experiance.

viking/sclotzie....  I guess it is a matter of priorities..  Your priority is to spend 80 grand on a bmw and not have a home with a garage... mine would be a 10 k car and a home with a garage..  It does make a good excuse for doing nothing yourself past glancing under the hood from time to time or talking to mechanics or.... getting the old screwdriver out of the junk drawer in the kitchen and crossthreading and buggering the screws on some tinted turn signal lenses...

you say you get what the wife wants.. I say.. the wife gets what I tell her.   She knows about as much about cars as you do... why should I let her pick one out?  Like you.. she shouldn't even get out of the kitchen with a screwdriver.

She wants a car?  for the women I always got late model mustangs or used cop cars with new paint and bilstiens.   Safe and fast cars.   For me... whatever I wanted or could afford at the time for raw material....  mostly el caminos tho since they did have a sorta truck bed.   Healey to blast around in...  Maybe a Harley or bmw motorcycle.

[Viking]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
That is why there are qualified opinions, and unqualified opinions.  It appears yours is an unqualified opinion, by choice.

When it comes to Lotus vs. Roush Mustang or any of the other comparisons Clarkson made I bet most if not all posts in this thread express unqualified opinions.

Originally posted by lazs2
you say you get what the wife wants.. I say.. the wife gets what I tell her

Yes Lazs, we all know you're a caveman. No need to repeat yourself.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Viking
When it comes to Lotus vs. Roush Mustang or any of the other comparisons Clarkson made I bet most if not all posts in this thread express unqualified opinions.




Yes Lazs, we all know you're a caveman. No need to repeat yourself.

 OK, since your stuck on the whole mustang thing. 17 years  back I built an '82 GT mustang from 2 wrecked cars. It was a real project. The car was clipped that is to say front half from one,back half from another. My boss at the time had lots of experience at it so I worked under his supervision.  I cut every spot weld and welded everything back myself.
I rebuilt the engine and most of the drive line. I rebuilt the suspension.



The platform now is a little different but no so much I couldn't do it again. If i had the resources.


I know what it takes to make a mustang go like stink. Not just in a straight line too.

So any time you wanna talk about what part you need to do it just ask.



Bronk


Edit: And that mustang because it had a salvage title .  Went through a rigorous State inspection for safety. The Inspector at the time commented on the repairs as looking very professional . All done by a green 20 year old.

[Skuzzy]

Originally posted by Viking
When it comes to Lotus vs. Roush Mustang or any of the other comparisons Clarkson made I bet most if not all posts in this thread express unqualified opinions.

In that specific context, it is probably true.  The only Lotus I have raced was an Elise.  And I only have time behind the wheel of a couple of project Mustangs, as well as a Mustang I built way back when (hmmm 1970, 71 maybe).

Nothing wrong with having an unqualified opinion.  It is just a matter of placing it all in context.

[Bronk]

Skuzzy wouldn't you say there are different degrees of "qualified opinion"?
Thats is to say general knowledge of the subject right down to the fine details of it?

Or in this case "I drive a car so I think X." to  "I design and build project cars and this is how x works.".

Each of us can draw from personal experience and relate an knowledgeable opinion.



As far as the Roush VS Lotus goes.
Strip some of the fat off the Roush. IE AC, sound deadlining materials , Power everything.  I know the lotus has none of that.
That Lotus would have it's hands full.
Certainly would make the cars more comparable .  

But I'd still bet the stang is more friendly a daily driver than the lotus.

Bronk

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by lazs2
LOL.. won't even say what you drive fastfwd?   come on... don't be a wuss.. you certainly can't use the excuse that it would diminish your opinion..  I don't think anyone puts much weight in your opinion at this point.

 

So true. It is funny when someone thinks avoiding a question like that makes them look anyting but silly.


I am betting prenus as well.

[Skuzzy]

Bronk, I think you might have it backwards.  As long as someone is providing thier opinion while staying in the realm of thier knowledge, then they are making a potentially qualified opinion.

I say 'potentially', as the basis or knowledge drawn on to make the opinion can be flawed.

There have been people on this board who state things in a manner to lead you to believe they are experts in the field.  Then later on, you find they are anything but experts.  They usually tip thier hand when confronted with a fact, they presume to be an opinion.

Fortunately, most people stay within thier realm of knowledge, for the most part.  And that usually can lead to a fair exchange of ideas and opinions, where everyone learns something.

[Bronk]

Kinda like a driver says "x car handles better than y.".
The engineer/designer says "x car handles better than Y and here is why. Blah blah blah .".

Both stay within their realm of knowledge.


Just trying to make sure I understand your way of thinking.


Bronk

[Viking]

Here's an example:


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6152174861803588978



Clarkson starts off by looking at it from an engineer's point of view, then goes on to the driver's POV.