A New Way Forward In Iraq

[Silat]

Originally posted by Toad
The Democrats now control both houses of Congress. They have made no secret about their determination to "get out of Iraq".

Bush and the Republicans squandered any opportunity to settle this thing. I think the low number of troops was a mistake from the get-go and as a result they have put us in the current situation.

So the window of opportunity passed when the the Dems took over. They will "get us out of Iraq".

That being the case, I see no point in continuing the effort. It will only create another divisive VietNam type situation in the country.

Bush blew it, the Republicans blew it. The Democratic wins in Congress have made the situation unrecoverable so...

time to go.

I'd start bringing the troops home today. All of them.

That's the way I see it. The Dems won't see it through; the decision has been made. No point in losing any more troops.

Wow!! The dems dont control the war. The president does. If we lose its his fault. Unless of course you reps are going to blame the troops?

[AquaShrimp]

Excellent post Kurt.  The war on terror has alot of analogies to the war on communism (the cold war).  Instead of fighting in south east asia, we are in south west asia.  We are still fighting a guerilla type war, lots of squad level combat.

[Silat]

Originally posted by lazs2
A study done by a liberal school is allways suspect but even so...  NPR was rated pretty liberal even amoung the 20 they surveyed when...  it is pretty much a given that even under the best of circumstances the media leans toward the left.

to me..  a survey by lefties on a lefty institution (the media) showed that NPR was pretty... well.... lefty.

I am against taxes..  you and the democrats and NPR may call em subsidies but to me they seem to be tax breaks.   It seems to me that the more we tax the oil companies the more it will cost us at the pump.

Now...  it is not like if the oil companies are taxed more that the rest of us will get taxed less..... nope.. they, the socialists, just want more money to spend.

Sooo this seems to be a way to increase taxes on a group..... increase the price of a product....  Increase our dependency on foreign oil and...increase/form another expensive government agency... and..

subsidize cheapo crap "alternative energy" gizmos that will destroy any real research.

I see no win in this.

This is simply more underhanded socialist class warfare to fund more and bigger government...   It's all ok so long as you can demonize a group before you penalize em.    smokers, drinkers, risk takers, the rich... the ones not completely in step with the herd..

As for telling me that if NPR makes me mad then I shouldn't listen...  that is perhaps one of the dumbest bits of advice I have herd here.   If you always agree with people telling you how to think then you will learn nothing.   Even tho I disagree I think I might learn something or.. it may drive me to check it out.

I Believe listening to both sides.... NPR and fox say... is far better than listening to just one.   If I could listen to only NPR tho.... I would probly not listen to anything.  

The internet, fox, right wing talk shows... these are all good things and add balance to what I consider to be a socialist left wing media out of touch with at least 50% of the population.

lazs

Leftleaning media LOL
The battle cry of the cons.
If the media were left Bush wouldnt be Pres.
If the media were left we wouldnt have attacked a country that didnt attack us.
I could go on and on.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Kurt
Aren't you putting the cart WAY before the horse here?  You don't become a superpower just because you have a n00k.

You need to have a navy that can be anywhere in the world at all times, and an airforce that can do the same.  Iran does not now and never will have the capability to project that kind of power.

nope

you don't need a navy or an airforce or an army to fight your battles.
Iran seems to be doing well (winning in the eyes of those that want to turn and run) in Iraq and they have not sent one official "soldier" into that country.
and yes, all you do need is a nuke and a fanatical group willing to die to deliver it.
They have half of that equation now.
They know they could never beat us in a fair fight and they know they do not have to. Heck, just 3000 dead soldiers in a war has spilt this country in two. And those deaths have had zero affect on the market. Imagine a city or two going up in mushroom/radioactive clouds and the market tanking to 1990 levels or lower. We would finish the job for them...

It's not about Iraq, it is about Iran .. maybe it always has been.

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Silat
Wow!! The dems dont control the war. The president does. If we lose its his fault. Unless of course you reps are going to blame the troops?

Apparently you forgot one thing. While it is true that the President as Commander in Chief does control the military the Congress is responsible for appropriating funds to pay the bills. No funding and there is no money for the troops supplies such as fuel, food, ammo, etc. etc. while they are overseas.

[lazs2]

silat.. are you saying that the media controls every aspect of thought in the country?  I am saying that there left leaning bias shows to anyone with a shred of honesty in them and that... they are so far off from the average American that they have only a small effect.

I would say that if they weren't left wing socialists that kerrie would have lost by a much larger margin... I am saying that if they weren't lefties that we wouldn't have quite so many questioning the war in iraq.  They do have an effect it is just not as large as they want.

It is like socialist public schools.. the little buggers do get brainwashed but then....life happens.   You really need an even more controled cradle to grave brainwashing like in soviet russia for it to work..   the democrats are working on it tho with the "fairness doctrine"  

lefty radio can't exist... it is the last bastion (along with the internet and fox) of right of center media.  The fairness doctrine plans to make talk show radio have both sides of every issue equally supported.   This sounds kinda fair but... it is not.   Not when you have the choice to listen or not.   Would they extend it to other sources?  nope.


lazs

[lukster]

Originally posted by Kurt
Hey, we screwed up Vietnam and walked away, and today, other than the brave souls lost over there, it doesn't mean a hill of dung in the world scheme.  The world didn't end, the commies still lost the cold war.

Should we have thrown another 50000 on the fire for the chance of winning and the cold war still going the way it did...?  To have another little puppet government in Asia?  Just to prove that we can win every fight that the French can't?  It didn't matter.  And in 20 years neither will Iraq.  There will still be militants over there that hate us, and there will still be dictators that won't play by American rules.

This idea that the world needs constant hand-holding of the United States or else it will descend into Chaos is pure weapons-grade CRAP.

We never should have gone into Iraq to begin with, My exit stratigy was not to enter, but the President didn't ask me.

I dunno Kurt. Even if you don't consider important the millions that died as a direct result of our cut and run policy in Vietnam we hardly ceased our "war" on communism. Without Reagan's aggressive buildup of our military in the 80's there's a good chance most of Europe would be speaking commie today. Oh wait....

[Eagler]

the difference btwn Vietnam and Iraq is simple ...

Russia was not the fanatical cheekbones Iran is ...

[Viking]

Originally posted by lukster
I dunno Kurt. Even if you don't consider important the millions that died as a direct result of our cut and run policy in Vietnam we hardly ceased our "war" on communism. Without Reagan's aggressive buildup of our military in the 80's there's a good chance most of Europe would be speaking commie today. Oh wait....

Thank you Lukster for protecting us from the commies.

[lukster]

Originally posted by Eagler
the difference btwn Vietnam and Iraq is simple ...

Russia was not the fanatical cheekbones Iran is ...

Perception of reality is arguably more influential than reality itself. If you perceive your enemy as more powerful than you and united in their will to defeat you, your morale will suffer. The difference between the Islamic fascists and the Russian communists is that the Islamists have faith they have God on their side making them undefeatable against any enemy. The Russian's faith in communism was lacking.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by lukster
Perception of reality is arguably more influential than reality itself. If you perceive your enemy as more powerful than you and united in their will to defeat you, your morale will suffer. The difference between the Islamic fascists and the Russian communists is that the Islamists have faith they have God on their side making them undefeatable against any enemy. The Russian's faith in communism was lacking.

plus they were not ready to kill themselves over their cause as they did not believe a reward of 72 virgins in heaven awaited them

not to mention the fact russia was content with the north taking over the south whereas Iran would not stop its madness after it rolls over Iraq .. why should it. It will have swelled its ranks and power to a level that will only be stopped by joint co-op of every non cheekbones nation against the cheekboness and they know we will never bond together for such a cause as we are weak and ignorant of the danger until it is too late...

[lukster]

Should Iran conquer much of the mideast at least we'll have a more clearly defined enemy should there come a time we need to demonstrate our power or retaliate for an attack on our soil. Little doubt the US will be blamed for giving Iran control of the middle east much like we are for Saddam's atrocities though.

[Yeager]

maybe before we evacuate our forces from Iraq we can get pelosi to annex those oil fields.  At least until we get out money back

[midnight Target]

WACK!
ow.
WACK!
ow.
WACK!
ow.

[Yeager]

El'Presidente Pelosi Senore'  like a big pizza pie.........