Author Topic: the three things I harp on...  (Read 1692 times)

Offline Phaser11

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the three things I harp on...
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2007, 07:40:25 AM »
Carefull here!
 Take the Hot Rods away and there will be no more LA-7's!!:aok
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2007, 08:12:24 AM »
halo.. Not sure I get your point except that you think global warming is so important that you named it twice...   I shudder to think what the views of democrat socialist blue people think about all the other subjects you named tho...    I was only naming the ones that were most important to me...  we can take the others one at a time if you like... I'll start.... death penalty... for it.

oboe...odd you can dig that up from  your memory but not my reply to it whenever it is brought up again...  seems sorta... dishonest...  Does make you realize what you would be up against in an election tho.

skuzzy..  Yeah.. I kinda give up too I figure when it gets bad enough for enough people they will act like Americans and throw all the bums out and trim down the government.

lazs

Offline john9001

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« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2007, 08:20:44 AM »
term limits, we don't need professional politicians.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2007, 08:23:17 AM by john9001 »

Offline moot

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« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2007, 08:37:03 AM »
People who have no weaknesses are terrible; there is no way of taking advantage of them.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2007, 08:39:26 AM »
xmarine has a point tho.. if all the democrats (or most of em) would vote libertarian then so would I.

lazs

Offline oboe

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« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2007, 09:16:14 AM »
Not sure what you are referring to, Lazs.   IMO as long as you are employed by a public utility, you are a practicing socialist.    Public utilities are socialism, period.     There's just no wiggle room there.

What strikes me as dishonest is your crusade against socialism.  

btw I don't disagree with all you gun views, and I appreciate seeing hot rods on the road.   I think you are too quick to blame everything on socialism without giving consideration to the positive impacts public ownership has had on our society.   The public schools and universities where you were educated, the wastewater and drinking water treatment facilities that serve your home (and provide you with a job), even the freeways where you drive your hot rod - all built and maintained with public money.    

Socialism.

I think you should maybe narrow the focus of what you are railing against.

Offline republic

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« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2007, 09:29:06 AM »
I agree, Socialism is just a word people throw around anymore as a scare tactic, or an attempt to bundle all Democrats into one little neat box.  If that's true should all Republican's not be fascists?

Again, it's not black and white.  Complete socialism is not a good thing, that doesn't mean that anything that could be classified as 'socialist' should be obliterated.  What use is the government other than to serve the people?

I pay taxes, my tax money should be used to benefit the citizens.  Help my kids through college, help with healthcare, etc.  If you want to take away all the social programs fine, then give me my tax money back.  :)

You can't tax and spend and then want the citizens to fend for themselves...that's government serving itself.

At some point we have to return to the economic differences between Republican/Democrat rather than the 'buzzword' differences.  Anymore we have Democrats pushing for government censorship of citizens, and Republicans spending China's money like there is no tomorrow.

Democrat/Republican is beginning to mean nothing.
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Offline Halo

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« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2007, 11:13:53 AM »
(quote) halo.. Not sure I get your point except that you think global warming is so important that you named it twice... I shudder to think what the views of democrat socialist blue people think about all the other subjects you named tho... I was only naming the ones that were most important to me... we can take the others one at a time if you like... I'll start.... death penalty... for it.
(unquote)

Didn't mean to mention global warming twice; no hidden message there.  

My point is there always are many crucial issues; they usually follow Maslov's hierarchy of needs (survival on the bottom, self-fulfillment at top); and people usually disagree about what should be done and what is most important.  

We usually wind up in sound bite discussions because it is so difficult to present any issue clearly enough and with alternatives distinctive enough to accurately represent what we believe at a given moment.  

That's why, as others have said, overall labels like Republican or Democrat or X candidate or Y candidate at best can represent only a blurred snapshot average of all the facets of issues we believe individually.

For example, I'm a strong supporter of gun rights (Republican Red) but I also support some limitations (Democrat Blue).  I believe women should have the right to manage their own bodies with abortion or anything else (Democrat Blue) but I also support some limitations (Republican Red).

Any gathering of people requires some restrictions and compromises, hence the eternal need for politics.  In high school I used to effect a condescending attitude toward politics until a girlfriend's father, who ran his own small oil company, sat me down and told me if I didn't like what was going on I better become a player or I would have myself to blame if things were not satisfactory to me.  No sense just railing to the heavens.  

So the way to change things is to get involved at local level and make our druthers known.  Look at important issues from the widest of spectrums, then work our way toward opposing viewpoints until we can pinpoint where we disagree.  

Along the way we often find many more points we agree on, and sometimes realize our disagreements are much more manageable than we first thought.  Somewhere compromise and tolerance will be essential.  That's western world politics and democracy, a heckuva lot better than endless bloodshed.

America definitely needs to get out the vote more.  It's disgraceful how cavalier we have become toward our heritage.  The biggest obstacle is candidates obfuscating issues and playing chameleon so we never know exactly who we are electing and whether they truly represent us or not.

But at least we get a chance to then vote them out.  It never will be easy, it often is not to our liking, but there is no escaping the importance of informed participation in democracies.

End sermon .  You are now being returned to regular programming.  Do not touch your dial.
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Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2007, 11:19:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by RedRadr
thus,the electorial college, shows how smart them guys really were...


The electoral college is ****ed.  Simple adding shows that someone can win the popular vote by an extreme margin, and still lose the electoral votes.

An extreme example.  3 Districts, each with 20,001 people in them.  Each district counts for 5 electoral votes.  District one votes 10,001 votes for A, 10,000 votes for B.  District two does the same.  District three votes 20,001 for B, none for A.

Who wins the election?
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Offline john9001

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« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2007, 11:43:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
The electoral college is ****ed.  Simple adding shows that someone can win the popular vote by an extreme margin, and still lose the electoral votes.

An extreme example.  3 Districts, each with 20,001 people in them.  Each district counts for 5 electoral votes.  District one votes 10,001 votes for A, 10,000 votes for B.  District two does the same.  District three votes 20,001 for B, none for A.

Who wins the election?


it depends how the state apportions the electoral votes. if it's a winner take all state like most are, A=20,002, B=40,001, B would get all 15 electoral votes,

if the state splits the electoral votes by district, A would get 10 votes, B gets 5 votes.

the states decide how to divide the votes.

it's quite simple actually

Offline -dead-

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« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2007, 01:01:46 PM »
I am the anti lazs:

Never owned or used a gun.
Never owned a car.
Live in a Communist country.

Still having fun doing my own thing, though.
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Offline rpm

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« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2007, 01:10:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by oboe
Lazs are you still a member of a union?    Do you still work at a public utility?    Is the public still paying for the gasoline for your vehicle?

This information came out in a thread a couple years ago.    Never sounded too much like an individualist to me (not that there's anything wrong with that).   ;)
WHOA, Stop the bus!!! Lazs is a card carrying pinko living off the public teat?!? :rofl :rofl :rofl

Lazs please put a stop to this ugly rumor. I know you are far to rugged an individualist with too much conviction in your beliefs to ever sink to that level. Say it ain't so, Joe!
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Offline Auger

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« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2007, 01:48:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
An extreme example.  3 Districts, each with 20,001 people in them.  Each district counts for 5 electoral votes.  District one votes 10,001 votes for A, 10,000 votes for B.  District two does the same.  District three votes 20,001 for B, none for A.

Who wins the election?


The lawyers haggling over the recount for districts 1 and 2.

Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2007, 02:14:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Democracy isn't all that it is cracked up to be.  All it takes for half the population to get screwed is the other half of the population having one more person.  This affects more and more people when you have larger units of government.

But it wouldn't be so bad if you made units of government as small as possible.



A wise philosopher once said that Democracy is the worst form of government that only brings out the worst in man.


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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2007, 02:39:08 PM »
Ok... one more time... A public utility can be socialism but is not necessarily so.

Wastewater and water for instance only charge for the people they serve... no one else.  everyone is charged according to their use.

In my case, the wastewater is a public or city owned facility.   This is not allways the case and is not the case for many of the plants around me.   they are private run.   When I came to work for the city it was a city owned and run facility but has never been tax supported.. it is fee supported an only to users and... the most important point...it is an enterprise fund seperate from the general fund.

It is also vulnerable to any takeover by private companies.   I have to bid against them or...at least submit a budget that reflects the advantage of keeping it within the city.   It could change every year.  so far... because of the type of facility, it is not hard for me to compete.  I do not consider an enterprise fund with user fees and open to bid as socialism.   You are not forced to participate (yet).  

I work for the customer but am not tax based.   If you have a septic tank and well then you are not charged.   Taxes go to the general fund.  Some fees do also but not ones like wastewater that go to an enterprise fund.

I also think it is really funny that the democrats and blue people here always seem to want things blurred and gray...  we can compromise they say...

Oh?  how do you compromise?   they say you can't have this or that firearm or carry it to defend yourself or even own it... how do you compromise that?  How do you compromise the death penalty?  

I do not believe that public schools are a good thing and I don't believe that we can't have roads without the government.   I really don't see much that they do for us that we couldn't do better without their meddling.

The major issues are black and white and very essential to one side or the other.   If you think abortion is murder for instance it will be very difficult to... to what?  say you are alright with a few less murders?   If you think the death penalty is murder... same thing....  If you think that we should all suffer because there may be some worthwhile contribution to global warming by man and I do not.... how do we "compromise"?

How do we compromise you telling me that I need to wear a seatbelt or give health care to every loser that comes down the pike?   How do we compromise you telling me what charities (social programs) that I need to support?

lazs