Tim Hardaway and his love of gays

[Silat]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Did you choose to be straight?  Did you wake up one morning and say, "Gee, I want to feel the heavenly pleasures of a woman!" and then declare yourself hetrosexual?  Or you just doing something that comes natural to you?


ack-ack

Ack why oh why are the righties spending so much time thinking about gay sex?
I think they have some inner conflict:)
And I asked someone in this thread along time ago about his "Choice" to be hetero. He never answered. I wanted the date and time of his decision to be hetero.
As for me I never had to choose I was born loving women.

                         

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Are you gay?  Do you know from experience how about a person becomes gay?


No, you don't (unless you are actually a homosexual).  The fact of the matter is that the only people that know the truth are the homosexuals.  And because they are the only ones who know, no one else knows and they can automatically pick the position that strengthens their side of the argument.  Because we have no standpoint from experience to counter it.

So they pick the position that homosexuality is natural and not a choice.  This may be true, it may not be.  The chances of us straight people finding out anytime soon is slim to nil.

Well lets see.  My wife's brother is homosexual.  Considering his father will no longer speak to him and he is unwelcome at his parents home, there's nothing in that to speak to him making that decision.  He's paid an awful price for it.

Now if you met him, you'd never know.  His partner is a great guy too.  My wife's brother is an architect and active in community etc.  Again.  It sure wasn't a choice for him, and I respect his courage for coming out, knowing what it cost him.

My cousin, son of loving parents, his father is a minister and mother is a nurse.  He struggled with it a long time before finally coming out.  Again in talking to him, it was never a choice just a recognition that it was what he was.  He works as a teacher, has always helped people, never been a threat or pushed his lifestyle on anyone.  If you met him you'd never know.  He married his partner and they seem to do just fine.

Guy I roomed with when I went to England for a semester during college.  Godfather to my son.  He struggled with it most of all, coming from a strict catholic family.  They laid a lot of shame and guilt on him.  He tried dating etc to 'make himself' change, but he was miserable.  I respect his courage in coming out as well as his was the most difficult based on how he'd been raised.  It too cost him his family because they couldn't deal with it.  Yet if you met him, you'd have no idea.  Just another good person.  He too has spent his adult life working with and helping people.

Does it mean that I would choose that lifestyle?  Nope, I wasn't made that way. Married 25 years happily.    Based on the pain and struggles I've seen those three go through, they'd not have chosen it, had it been a choice.

But far be it from me to condemn them anymore then they should condemn me for my life.  I'll judge them based on their actions and on the good people they are instead, as I would hope they would judge me.

[lasersailor184]

I'm sorry, we're you trying to qualify their decisions by how good of a person they are?

I know gay people as well.  That doesn't mean I have a standpoint from which only I can speak of it.


But just because you don't agree with what they do in a bed room doesn't mean you should judge them for what they do outside.  As long as it's consenting adults, it doesn't matter to me what they do.  Don't ask me to agree with it though.

[kamilyun]

Is girl on girl action bad, too?

[LePaul]

Originally posted by storch
it's amazing how much influence 3% of the population has over the culture.

Word.

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'm sorry, we're you trying to qualify their decisions by how good of a person they are?
 

No, he was pointing out, in a pretty substantive way, how he is convinced that it is not a choice. Are you being purposely dense?

[BTW]

Originally posted by midnight Target
No, he was pointing out, in a pretty substantive way, how he is convinced that it is not a choice. Are you being purposely dense?

And I think he's right. I didn't wake up one day and decide "hmmm do I want to like girls or boys?" But having it not be a choice doesn't mean its strictly genetic. There are cases that refute BOTH arguments that make it apparent its a complex combination. But to try to isolate sexuality from behavior, IMO, is ridiculous. That is if you aren't viewing behavior as just the sex act.

[GtoRA2]

The guy is free to make any statement he wants. Hell he could be a klucker for all I care.

He is a sports figure, what he thinks and says means NOTHING.


Now he will pay for his words.


Freedom of speech only protects you from the government. If the NBA wants to can his dumb bellybutton for saying what prolly 90% of their players think, then that's their right.


Freedom of speech is for protecting US from the government. Not from our employers.

[BTW]

Originally posted by GtoRA2
The guy is free to make any statement he wants. Hell he could be a klucker for all I care.

He is a sports figure, what he thinks and says means NOTHING.


Now he will pay for his words.


Freedom of speech only protects you from the government. If the NBA wants to can his dumb bellybutton for saying what prolly 90% of their players think, then that's their right.


Freedom of speech is for protecting US from the government. Not from our employers.

Yea thats all well and fine but the NBA commissioner said this:

"This is an issue overall that has fascinated America. It's not an NBA issue," Stern said, pointing to the ongoing debate over gay marriage at the state and federal levels.

"This is a country that needs to talk about this issue," he said. "And, not surprisingly, they use sports as a catalyst to begin the dialogue."

I don't think you encourage dialogue by imposing employment penalties for one who states his preferences. That makes the NBA commissioner nothing but a hypocrite . Anyone here can think of a better, less vindictive way to deal with that situation? I can think of at least twenty that would've opened dialogue and not polarized the issue. I guess the NBA commissioner is kinda dumb.

[Debonair]

Originally posted by
tim hardaway sux

[lazs2]

btw... not sure about all this..  Are you saying that identical twins are identical human beings?

Are you also saying that gays aren't different in their sexual preference until someone or something changes them from straight to gay?    That is is not a force of nature?

Are you saying that a straight person could be made to prefer gay sex over hetro sex?  

none of that seems very logical to me.  

lazs

[Kieran]

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences of what you say. If your job is dependent on what people think about you, then the backlash of your words is something that should always be on your mind.

The Dixie Chicks cried "foul" when they were held accountable for their ill-advised statements about Bush.

Michael Richards sure wishes he could take back a certain obscenity-laced tantrum.

John Rocker might have done things differently given the choice to do it again.

It's not unheard of, you know, that a job would be dependent upon the public face one presents.

BUT... I guess it only matters whose ox is getting gored...

[BTW]

Originally posted by lazs2
btw... not sure about all this..  Are you saying that identical twins are identical human beings?

Are you also saying that gays aren't different in their sexual preference until someone or something changes them from straight to gay?    That is is not a force of nature?

Are you saying that a straight person could be made to prefer gay sex over hetro sex?  

none of that seems very logical to me.  

lazs

Genetically, identical twins are er... identical. They have the exact same DNA. So, genetically they are identical human beings. (BTW, although identical twins have identical DNA, they  have different finger prints! Its a phenotype trait) And there are cases where identical twins have different sexual orientations. That pretty much rules out the fact that sexual orientation exclusively genetic- like skin color or eye color. There is also a famous case profiled in various media source (e.g., The Rolling Stone, 60 minutes, Dateline), telling the story of a boy who was raised as a girl after a botched circumcision. Although the individual believed he was a girl growing up, he thought he was a lesbian because his attraction was toward girls. In spite of environment, his heterosexuality was dominant. I don't study human sexuality, but I remember these cases being sited when the debate on the reason for sexual orientation came into the news some years ago. Then, I believe the scientific consensus is sexual orientation is a combination of environment, chemistry, and genetics. To say that environment or behavior has no effect on sexual orientation is just as wrong as saying genetics have no effect on sexual orientation.

I don't know what a force of nature is in this context ( all these forces are natural), but as I stated above, I believe sexual orientation is established in a complex process of genetics, chemistry and environment.

As for as changing an individuals orientation, I don't think we're even close to that. We're not even sure what happens to create a specific orientation, let alone change it or if it can be changed (e.g., can you unring a bell?)

When people stand up and arrogantly proclaim they know the reason for sexual orientation, you can bet its politically biased. We don't have the science- not even close.

[lazs2]

so if they have different fingerprints then they are.... not identical.  

I say this because I have know identical twins and they are never identical.

I don't claim to know all the reasons someone is straight or gay but even you admit that at least a portion of it is hardwired into us.  

I think that a certain small percentage of us will always be hardwired to be homosexual.   We have to learn to tolerate it as best we can.  they don't need to be treated better than the rest of us tho.

lazs

[bj229r]

Originally posted by kamilyun
Is girl on girl action bad, too?

I was wonderin same thing...I'm pretty sure there is a loophole which makes that cool:aok

Ya know..if Hardaway was a crack addict who beat up his wife and gambled away his money, he would be assigned victim status, due to his poor childhood