Author Topic: So.... what would you like to see incorporated into scoring/ranking and stats.  (Read 1880 times)

Offline Ghastly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1756
I know that Skuzzy is in the process of rewriting the web scores "stuff", and that HTC will do whatever they think is best, but given all the recent discussion where scoring has been a factor in the topic under discussion, thought I throw this one up for discussion.   What particular information would you find useful to have in scoring, ranking and stats?

I'll start....  

I tend to fly fighter combat, and pretty much that only. The ground war doesn't really interest me, GV's don't interest me, and what does interest me is relative skill level in air to air combat.  Note I don't say "dogfighting skills", because to me the guy who picks his engagements wisely is a much "better" player than someone who can outfly him 1v1 but dies every sortie.

Because of how I play the game at this point:

Scoring (the accumulation of scoring points ) doesn't really impact me, as far as I'm concerned it's a way for the game designer to provide another avenue of interest for some players beyond the actual mechanics of game play.  To the extent that it accomplishes that goal - draws or increases interest in the game from players so that more play, and that those play, play more - whatever makes sense to the developer is fine with me and makes it a "success".  

Ranking is almost the same as well. Especially in a "mixed arm" sim, it provides little insight (to me at least, your opinion may differ) into relative skill levels, so in the same way as scoring it doesn't really impact me either, and once again I see it also primarily as a way for the game designer to provide another avenue of interest in playing for some players.

The exception being that in AH the higher ranked player can take control of the CV, which is of potentially arguable merit. If it wern't subject to gaming, a higher ranking given how HTC calculates it would tend to indicate who is probably a "better" overall player (again, setting aside the issues of gaming rank), so to my way of thinking it has merit, but I know others disagree.

Stats is what I like, and ideally, the more information the better.  I like to know who I killed and what they were flying when I did so and what I was flying.  Same when I died.  I like most of the current scoring and extended scoring stats, and I like the totals for kills and deaths in aircraft on a per player basis, although I'd like to see every death shown - not just those where an enemy damaged your aircraft.  Given the incorporation of aircraft ENY into the game, I'd be very much interested in seeing an ENY adjusted K/d ratio, as well as perhaps kills/hour and kills/sortie if a sensible adjustment were to be devised.   This is something that's always been difficult to judge everywhere else - a player who consistently does well in the "lesser" rides may appear to be a poorer pilot than someone who never flies anything but the best available, and yet in reality be a much more formidable opponent.   AH has a builtin mechanism already in place that might make it easier to "drill down" past that limitation.

I like to feel that I'm constantly improving my skill in the niche where I enjoy playing, and to the extent that I can confirm - or deny - that I'm doing so, I find the stats and scoring to be one of the useful tools.

« Last Edit: March 02, 2007, 09:29:07 AM by Ghastly »
"Curse your sudden (but inevitable!) betrayal!"
Grue

Offline blackdog68

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Quote
Originally posted by Ghastly

I'll start....  

I tend to fly fighter combat, and pretty much that only. The ground war doesn't really interest me, GV's don't interest me, and what does interest me is relative skill level in air to air combat.  Note I don't say "dogfighting skills", because to me the guy who picks his engagements wisely is a much "better" player than someone who can outfly him 1v1 but dies every sortie.



See, here's the issue.  I disagree with much of what you've said above.  To me, dogfighting skills are my primary goal.  I often take off or put myself at a disadvantage just to improve those skills.  I don't fly around, typically, at 20K and pick the edges or only pick advantageous fights.  And I certainly don't fly with a wingman or a squad.

I'll also "sacrifice" my kill or sortie/ratio to save/take a base.  I can make an argument that the way the game is set up, currently, land grabbing/defending is the primary goal.  Players who don't realize this are not the 'better' players according to this line of thought.

HOWEVER, and my point is this, neither of us are "correct" to the exclusion of the other.  There are many different ways to play this game.  As such, I don't think the scoring system overall is a big concern to you or I.

I agree with more stats per engagement.  How about we add to your list things like relative E (alt + speed) and ratio of friendly/enemy aircraft at the time of engagement?  I hear the argument that this or that is a dweeb plane, coming from the guy diving in from 20K with his wingman and/or squadies in formation attacking with odds heavily in their favor.  Can't those tactics be considered dweeb tactics as well?  I'm not trying to start an individual versus team debate here other than to state that BOTH viewpoints exist.  We all pay our money to play in whichever manner yields the most satisfaction.

Anyway, I respectfully submit this point of view in hopes that we can measure as many factors as possible, so that each style of play can be measured according to the criteria of that player.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2007, 10:06:23 AM by blackdog68 »

Offline Bucky73

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 826
A Dweeb rating column

Offline KINGcobra

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53
A raming colum to see how many times dweebs ram you:aok

Offline Pawz

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 754
Who cares about score I think you should get rid of the whole scoring thing because all it creates is milk runners.
When I die bury me in a P38.

I watch day after day, week after week, tour after tour, the Bishops and Rooks take bases and win maps while the Knights stand there with their thumbs stuck in their butts. It's just pathetic!

Offline Ghastly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1756
(In response to BlackDog68) I agree - neither of us is necessarily wrong or right, we simply value different things differently.  And a great scoring system would one that allows both of us (and others) to extract the components that we value and "evaluate them" in ways meaningful to us.  

I'd no doubt score "poorly" on your dogfighting scale, you'd score "poorly" on my scale.  Which would be how it should be.

Collisions with another aircraft are another category of stats that I hadn't thought of including because they don't apply to me often.   Ground collisons on the other hand .... a category for those would be useful at times too.

"Curse your sudden (but inevitable!) betrayal!"
Grue

Offline Ghastly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1756
Pawz, any online game that didn't have any scoring and ranking stats would - at least in my opinion - have a hard time holding the interest of a significant portion of the player base.    Less players wouldn't benefit HTC, or the rest of us.

IMHO of course.

"Curse your sudden (but inevitable!) betrayal!"
Grue

Offline Stampf

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11491
Quote
Originally posted by Pawz
Who cares about score I think you should get rid of the whole scoring thing because all it creates is milk runners.


:huh  Scores...no matter how little they mean in the overall scope of things are needed to keep  (x) % of the player base active.  Scores are cool as long as you keep it all in perspective.

Not to mention, Milkrunners are tasty treats.:t
- Der Wander Zirkus -
- La Fabrica de Exitos -

Offline Schatzi

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5729
      • http://www.slowcat.de
A fun indicator.
21 is only half the truth.

Offline Target2

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 947
As Ghastly mentioned, I would like a complete list of who I shot down. Sometimes I like to check the stats of the guy I got, but can't exactly remember his ID.
71 Eagle Squadron

Offline Dichotomy

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12391
Quote
Originally posted by Bucky73
A Dweeb rating column


WOOHOOO a chance for me to be number 1 at something *passes out cigars and shots
JG11 - Dicho37Only The Proud Only The Strong AH Players who've passed on :salute

Offline Masherbrum

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22416
Quote
Originally posted by Dichotomy
WOOHOOO a chance for me to be number 1 at something *passes out cigars and shots


:rofl   Just don't spill the shot glasses this time!
FSO Squad 412th FNVG
http://worldfamousfridaynighters.com/
Co-Founder of DFC

Offline Schatzi

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5729
      • http://www.slowcat.de
Quote
Originally posted by Target2
As Ghastly mentioned, I would like a complete list of who I shot down. Sometimes I like to check the stats of the guy I got, but can't exactly remember his ID.



If you ever happen across me, BE WARNED. Do NOT look up my stats after shooting me. You might not survive....




... the HORROR.

:D
21 is only half the truth.

Offline Tilt

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7358
      • FullTilt
Quote
Originally posted by Ghastly
 Given the incorporation of aircraft ENY into the game, I'd be very much interested in seeing an ENY adjusted K/d ratio,


Seems your really talking about using perks earned as a basis for score........

I would agree with this............

I have just said the same elsewhere but it seems to me that

Fighter, Attack, Bombing, Gv scores can all be based upon perks earned and averaged to a perks earned per mission..............

I would like to see separate perks for attack stuff for many other reasons
but once done and melded into a perks earned per mission you then end up with a score that has taken into account ENY.

Equally you have Fighter, Attack,Bomber, Gv and totalled average scores.

This score system will reward players who excel in less uber ac or who fly for minority sides........it encourages balance in game play at both arena  and local levels.

To focus and simplify this even more I would modify the attaboys to require a perk threshold of 2 perk points and 2 kills to get a system announcement.

The system would just look at perks earned. It would not look at perks lost or spent. Players should not be score penalised for spending their winnings.

Apart from scores I do not see why the FE cant hold a list of the last # to be shot down or the last # to have shot me down.

Accessable form a button in the tower or OC.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2007, 02:38:51 PM by Tilt »
Ludere Vincere

Offline Ghastly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1756
You are right - and What I like about that idea Tilt is that it takes into account the arena numbers and "general conditions", which nothing else really does.   And when numbers are way off, it can make a huge difference in terms of what you can and cannot accomplish, which would be reflected in perks attained.

Some combination of perks earned per death, perks earned per sortie,  and perks earned per kill would probably be a pretty darn useful number for evaluating relative skill levels.

Good thinking.

"Curse your sudden (but inevitable!) betrayal!"
Grue