Why are ho's bad?

[Nilsen]

[quintv]

They aren't bad, they made up  the majority of my lays in college.

[nirvana]

They aren't bad, they just piss off people who don't avoid them.  I'm one of the forever n00bs of the game who will take any shot because 1) I suck 2) You never know when the next shot will come.  I don't try to HO, but if the opportunity reveals itself then the gloves are off and the bullets are flying.



Fly how you want, fly what you like, who cares what the other guy thinks

[DLfrmHLL]

Lets take "Game" out  and put in "Real" for a moment. Use the imagination
if needed. In real life Air Combat I do not think there are rules. Some
Guidelines for a better chance of survival yes, HO not a perfered attack
style, but it was not ignored.

1 We r not Flying Tigers. The ones who ho-ed and came back to tell r.
2 Might b looked down upon in a game, but not by the real pilots. I
    would think it takes more skill to shoot the enemy first and b out of
    the way than to test fate in the six o'clock dance. Tell us then, when
    two pilots collide who is the less skilled pilot?
3  Boxing, hunting, and War are sport, enter the chance of death.
    No one has ever died playing the game of ping pong.
4  Reality is that there is no such thing as Kill to Death ratio for one
    pilot.
5  I know the "Luck" word is used by many pilots here to describe their  
    outcomes, and very possibly used by the real pilots too.
6  It is delusional to think a Zeke pilot would let a p40 fly right by
    and through thier sights knowing they r not going to turn and fight.
7  A "Kill is a Kill" more possibly the slogan of ones who retuned alive.
8  Learning is what its all about. and for some of us its a better lesson
    when we take the "Game" out of it.

[Dadano]

Originally posted by DLfrmHLL
Lets take "Game" out  and put in "Real" for a moment. Use the imagination
if needed. In real life Air Combat I do not think there are rules. Some
Guidelines for a better chance of survival yes, HO not a perfered attack
style, but it was not ignored.

1 We r not Flying Tigers. The ones who ho-ed and came back to tell r.
2 Might b looked down upon in a game, but not by the real pilots. I
    would think it takes more skill to shoot the enemy first and b out of
    the way than to test fate in the six o'clock dance. Tell us then, when
    two pilots collide who is the less skilled pilot?
3  Boxing, hunting, and War are sport, enter the chance of death.
    No one has ever died playing the game of ping pong.
4  Reality is that there is no such thing as Kill to Death ratio for one
    pilot.
5  I know the "Luck" word is used by many pilots here to describe their  
    outcomes, and very possibly used by the real pilots too.
6  It is delusional to think a Zeke pilot would let a p40 fly right by
    and through thier sights knowing they r not going to turn and fight.
7  A "Kill is a Kill" more possibly the slogan of ones who retuned alive.
8  Learning is what its all about. and for some of us its a better lesson
    when we take the "Game" out of it.

My response was based on my experience in Aces High II.

I don't deny that head on shots were taken. The difference being, they had the whole "dead" thing to worry about, we don't.

Try differentiating between this game and real life. The game is much more fun for everyone that way.

Good Luck*

[Scca]

Originally posted by Nilsen
Even some of the vets around here consider any shot not on dead 6 a HO. I can name a few folks who constantly complain about HO's in the game when they have not been HOed.

If you see the plane From The top, belly or siDEs it is not a HO whatEver the Pilot says.      

That's funny, and I agree  

[Speed55]

......... because most of them are drug addicts, and have a high percentage of carrying a disease.  They also tend to have mental problems.

[Viking]

HO's are bad only when you lose. I have never seen anyone on 200 complain about an HO they won. It takes two to HO.

My approach to HO's is: If they try to avoid it I shoot. If they go for the shot I try to avoid them. Seems to work for me.

[eilif]

Heh, i remember my first HO, it was also my first kill, tho i dead too hehe.  I spotted the enemy on radar and pointed my nose at him, he did the same. We flew straight at each other for 10 miles and then flew right into eachothers guns. I thought i was good hehe.

[Kweassa]

Does do most people consider ho's dumb/stupid/dweebish? I don't even have the game yet, so don't try to pin me as a ho supporter/enthusiast lol.

 Because the HO we refer to in the MA is usually a direct result of lack of skill.

 There are a few situations where HO's are considered "logical". For instance, when you are outnumbered, taking a HO shot to quickly remove one of the opponents may help save your life. Or, when your plane outguns the opponent by far, and is deemed a tough plane, then it is very likely you'll be the victor when a HO happens.

 However, no matter how 'logical' it may be, ultimately the HO is embedded with a luck factor you cannot control. You could do all you can do about HOs perfectly, and still if the opponent lands a good shot on you then you are going down. No matter how well you fly, when a HO happens the results are always influenced by the other guy. This, according to the fundamentals of aerial combat, is totally unacceptable.

 The problem is, in the MA, people do not have to cope with the "death/fear" factor the real life pilots had. Therefore, sometimes they fly very wrecklessly. This means by getting in a plane with a good turning ability, they can just pull maximum turns everytime and try to meet every enemy movement by turning into him, facing him forward, bearing guns at his face in a HO run. Sometimes these newbies don't know any better, sometimes its intentional. Whatever the reasons there may be, one thing for certain is that these HO attempts always have the same results: the HO kills the "skill factor" and brings in the "luck factor".

 No matter how superior pilot the other guy may be, if you can always meet him in a HO angle then it always comes down to luck (if the other guy decides to take a shot in that angle also). That's why veteran pilots hate HO attempts - it's a purely gamey way of thinking, with no respect whatsoever towards the theory and science of aerial combat maneuvering.

 I agree to the general premise that "it takes TWO to HO". However, when a newbie in his favorite  Schitfire follows you around, and then does nothing but max turns everytime to force a HO angle, it gets really, really frustrating. I'm trying to win this fight without getting shot at, but the other guy doesn't care if he gets shot or not.  All he cares is bearing the guns on me, and getting a chance to pull the trigger. That's why people hate it.

oh and whats a toolshedder?

 In the early days, the term "toolshedder" was used by the furball folk against the strat folk. But nowadays it's a term more associated with the armageddon locust hordes in the game - the huge swarm of bad guys who only appear at undefended fields and fronts, and choose to blitzkrieg that area of the map by fighting ground objects, rather than actually meeting the enemy in the air.

 The typical toolshedder tends to just disband the horde and disappear when an opposition of similar magnitude rises. When they can't just milkrun fields to their liking, they just go away, give up the fight, and then reform the swarm horde at some other undefended area of the map, and then go busting "toolsheds" in that undefended field.

[Hedworx]

Now that I don't have to start another HO thread......

I'm still fairly new to the game and during my two week trial period I read as much of the forums and other sites as I could to learn what was allowed, considered o.k., considered cheating, etc.....  For two months now, I've tried to avoid HOing.  I've turned, dove, climbed and turned up on one wing to bypass only to get peppered or at least shot at.  If you try to avoid too early, they can turn to get a shot off.  If you try and avoid too late, they shoot or you collide.

Now, I ask.......Should I start HOing, or continue to be an easy target?

It's very frustrating when trying to learn to fly and fight by what is considered "OK" only to see others take advantage of it.

[Ghastly]

Hedworx, go the the training arena and work with the trainers.  I *guarantee* after an hour of work with them you'll find that you need never take the HO in any fighter, and that you can always turn your opponents attempt to your advantage.  

[Scca]

Originally posted by Hedworx
Now that I don't have to start another HO thread......

I'm still fairly new to the game and during my two week trial period I read as much of the forums and other sites as I could to learn what was allowed, considered o.k., considered cheating, etc.....  For two months now, I've tried to avoid HOing.  I've turned, dove, climbed and turned up on one wing to bypass only to get peppered or at least shot at.  If you try to avoid too early, they can turn to get a shot off.  If you try and avoid too late, they shoot or you collide.

Now, I ask.......Should I start HOing, or continue to be an easy target?

It's very frustrating when trying to learn to fly and fight by what is considered "OK" only to see others take advantage of it.

I am only a few months into the game and have learned to avoid most initial merge HO's.  I usually duck under them as it's harder for them to go negitive G's to get the shot.  

The best advise I can give is avoid a HO early, maybe 4K plus out.  Once you have a better feel for the game you will learn you can avoid a HO before it's a HO.  

My feeling is it's like a fist fight, it takes two to tango...  My rule is never go straight at someone's front.  Look for a way to get on THEIR 6...

[Traveler]

You read the posts from the anti HO’er out there, one might actually start to believe that No one ever HO’s in this game.  

Fact is,  takes two to HO.  Somebody wants to place his aircraft directly in front of my guns.  I’ll fire.  Weather that’s from 12 Oclock or 6 Oclock or anywhere in between it’s all good.  

I’ll side slip out to the right side and at the last second  swing my nose back in with rudder for the snap shot, as the nme continues to hold his course to make what he thinks is a close pass on my left side.   Just to realize that my tracers are off and he’s got a face full of lead.  

I loved it when one guy that I HO’d three times  in a row came up on vox to complain that I had no skill.  He had just been shot down in an HO, remember it takes two to HO, for the third time and according to him, I had no skill.  He in his light F4U-1C and me in my Heavy P38L and I had no skill.  I finally put my eggs on his CV and RTB’ed.

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by Traveler
Fact is,  takes two to HO.  

New guy, don't buy into this hype.  The truth of the matter is that it takes two to merge, only one to make the merge a HO.

This traveler fellow would lead you to believe that the HO is some kind of skilled ACM. Please do not be lulled into this form of gameplay.  Your skill development will suffer and you too, could be forced to rely on this coin toss of a tactic.