Explanation please

[Saxman]

Trying to zoom on him with a Spitfire was probably your biggest mistake. Spits may be low-drag with good engines, but they're LIGHT birds. Zoom is largely ruled by mass, so unless you have a significant starting energy advantage you don't have a PRAYER of out-zooming the heavier American iron like the P-38 and F4U.

Would have been better to have gone nose-low and either force him to bleed off airspeed and drag him into a close fight or overspeed and compress (but a good pilot can use throttle, trim and rudder to keep the airspeed controllable).

[blackdog68]

Fair enough, Ack Ack.  My fault.

Now can we let it go now that its been ~3 weeks and you were on me about it again last night?

Karaya - You got it backwards.  I issued an expletive abbreviation for being vulched again, which of course got me banned for 10 and you used the whole 10 mins to trash talk.

Note we kept the base, so this was not a case of re-upping for no reason.  And also note your teammates were repeatedly using the "drop paratroopers to misdirect AA" tactic.

What started last night is the 'BS' I uttered about the 3 formation laser guns on bombers.  The exact same thing complained about on here ad nauseum.  I'm sorry, the 3 formation laser gun is NOT historically accurate.

As for newbie, I do have a lot to learn about the flight models in AH, but I have thousands of hours in CFS's of 1 sort or another, mostly Fighter Ace and online CFS "back in the day".  As for a reputation, sorry, in the 3 months I've been in AH you can count AKAK and Karaya (only because Karaya started it, I fess up to starting on AKAK with his Houdini like 38) as the only 2 trash talking episodes.

[Max]

...and now back to our feature presentation,
"Gunfight At The OK Corral."

[hammer]

Originally posted by blackdog68
...After HO pass, guns quiet, turn around to look immediately and P-38 is banking hard in a level turn....

From your description, this is where you lost. You didn't do anything until after the pass. Ack-Ack was already turning before the pass (lead turn). And a 38 with speed will do all kinds of nice things in the vertical.

Regards,

Hammer

[doc1kelley]

Originally posted by Vad
BTW, Akak, could you explain what he had to do to beat you in that situation.
Or, in other words, what would you do being in Spit9 against really good pilot in P38.

I know what I would do if I were in a situation like that and the 38 driver was Akak, Murder, Crims, Pick, VonHoltz, and a slew of others... I'd stick my head between my legs and kiss my buttocks goodbye.

All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1

PS.. The P-38 is an amazing plane and can do some really great stuff that cannot be done with other planes if flown by someone who knows it's capabilities.

[Bucky73]

"pilot"

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by blackdog68
Fair enough, Ack Ack.  My fault.

Karaya - You got it backwards.  I issued an expletive abbreviation for being vulched again, which of course got me banned for 10 and you used the whole 10 mins to trash talk.

 As for a reputation, sorry, in the 3 months I've been in AH you can count AKAK and Karaya (only because Karaya started it, I fess up to starting on AKAK with his Houdini like 38) as the only 2 trash talking episodes.

Sorry, but you kept upping.   I vultched you once, shamus had vulched you twice.   The reason I was messing with YOU, is you had it backwards.   You thought I vultched you twice.  

But, you kept upping.  

I didn't trash talk for 10 mins.   I was too busy shooting down cons in a Ki61 to trash talk.    Anytime you wish to stroll to the DA and learn, give me a ring.   I have no beef with you or anyone over a GAME.

[FrodeMk3]

blackdog68 Co-alt merge, myself in Spit9 doing 320 IAS versus P-38(not L, we are in Mid-War) claiming to be at 415 IAS. About 10K of alt.

Blackdog, I noticed this right off the bat....

     IAS on the deck is pretty much true airspeed. At 10k, you  need to correct it. Look at the little red mark on the IAS to determine your actual airspeed, or go to your clipboard and pull up your E6B. Your actual speed should have been somewhat faster (350 or so) and Ack's as well.

     But, being as he had an E advantage, plus with no film, that's all that we can really suppose at this time....

     Having driven the 38J quite a bit myself, I'm guessing that for the reverse turn, Ack coulda dropped some flaps, too.

[Vad]

Originally posted by doc1kelley
I know what I would do if I were in a situation like that and the 38 driver was Akak, Murder, Crims, Pick, VonHoltz, and a slew of others... I'd stick my head between my legs and kiss my buttocks goodbye.

All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1

PS.. The P-38 is an amazing plane and can do some really great stuff that cannot be done with other planes if flown by someone who knows it's capabilities.

I would do the same but I was asking what Akak would do. Hope he would find something better

[68Boomer]

Having a Bullseye painted on your tail.........Annoying

Still being low in the learning curve..............Really Annoying

Getting waxed by AckAck and other Vets.....SUCKS!

Learning from the encounters w/ the aforementioned Pilot and other top sticks.........PRICELESS!!!

to you all....and.....Thanks!

[Shamus]

shamus does not vulch..he "field suppresses".

shamus

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Vad
I would do the same but I was asking what Akak would do. Hope he would find something better

While I'm no 38 expert. I'd try and get the fight to medium speeds.
250 -300 range I'd say would be best. DO NOT FOLLOW THEM UP, unless you have the E advantage.
Avoid B-n-Z till in that range. Do not get suckered into the ultra low fight where the 38's no torque stalls can be used to an advantage.

I'm sure I'll get corrected.


Bronk

[blackdog68]

If you had noticed, I was nose down as we were approaching and as you were approaching 800 yards from the merge, I pulled into you so that when you'd pass I'd be on your six, basically a Low Yo-Yo on the merge. I'm building up E on the merge with the Yo-Yo. And I'm pulling no more then 3g's so my E loss is almost minimul. The result is that I've got plenty of energy to match any vertical move you make in the Spitfire Mk IX.

OK...

But a couple of points to make:

I matched the first part of your low yo-yo with a nose down bank at you.  You, at least on my screen, did not have more than a couple of degrees of your 180 completed at the time we passed.  I'm not going to let you lead turn into me in that situation.

After the merge, you immediately went into a shallow climb and then after I came around, you went into a zoom climb.  Now, this is going to be a shock to you but the P-38 is far better than the Spitfire Mk IX in the vertical

Yes, it is a shock and the crux of my point of view.  Now I rarely fly Spits except as adversary training since I'm usually in an LA-5 unless I need to JABO or actually want to be airborne for more than 25 minutes per sortie .  However, a/t the actual WW2 flight test docs I could find, and the Aces High flight test evaluation charts, the Spit should be at least equal if not hold a slight advantage in climb rate.

So, what I was trying to do was bleed any E you had left, then rope you vertical.  Although that was plan B after seeing how quickly you went from quiet (TY) HO to 6.  Plan C was to stall/hammerhead and make you overshoot, but your cannons quickly put an end to any further planning...

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Shamus
shamus does not vulch..he "field suppresses".

shamus

[hammer]

Yes, it is a shock and the crux of my point of view....the actual WW2 flight test docs I could find, and the Aces High flight test evaluation charts, the Spit should be at least equal if not hold a slight advantage in climb rate.

Having a better sustained climb rate is not the same as performing better in the vertical or having a better zoom ability. The 38 is fantastic in the vertical and has very good zoom ability. From anywhere near co-E, it will follow a spitfire up no problem.

Regards,

Hammer