Defense Against Mass Shooters

[Flit]

Ain't nothing like "Zero Tolerance"

[BBBB]

Originally posted by Halo
 Especially from you law enforcement and military veterans -- What can unarmed victims do to save themselves before help arrives?

Find cover and stay put. If you are behind a door, lock it. Most of all do not try to be a hero.

As for tactics..Un-armed vs. armed. I would find cover and try to get a good veiw of the attacker. If I can move with out the bad guy seeing me and place myself closer to him/her, I would. Then I would wait, watch and listen. I am looking for the bad guy to reload. Catching them on the reload levels the playing feild somewhat.
 Now that stated above has a ton of "IF's" that have to happen to make that work. Truth is, if it is your time to go..it is your time to go. I have a friend of mine who is a police officer. He has been in two shoot outs. The first one, after re-turning fire his weapon jammed and could no be cleared. While he is behind cover trying to clear his weapon and return to action the bad guy is walking up on him shooting. He would have been dead. Except the bad guy ran out of ammo right as he came around on my buddy. My friend was able to tackle the guy and subdue him.
 Second time around was at a birthday party in the park. A group of kids started fighting and one of them pulled a gun. He saw this and drew his off-duty weapon. He commanded the guy to drop his weapon. Insted the guy aimed it at him. My friend opened up. In the end my buddy shot eight times hitting the bad guy six. Why so much? Because the guy stayed on his feet and kept shooting while he was being hit with 165gr JHP .40S&Ws. The bottom line is when your ticket is up it will be punched. Luck of the draw. Skill only plays a small part in it.

-Sp0t

[vorticon]

the only remotly realistic ways of fighting back i can think of are:

students hear gunshots in the next room and figure , rather than barricading our door, we'll get beside it with something heavy and club the next person who walks through...

or,

someone who happens to have a knife on them sees the shooter coming out  of a room just up the hall, and rushes him.

[vorticon]

Originally posted by Flit
Ain't nothing like "Zero Tolerance"

ah, so teachers should just stand by and let kids fight it out between themselves? very easy to get very ugly in that case.


not that i have anything against schoolyard scuffles, but...a fight better not last any longer than it takes for someone to break it up - the first time - the school better get the kids to sort out the trouble before it gets worse. and make it very clear (especially once the kids are old enough to start doing real damage) that if they were a few years older, someone would be going to jail.

[Brenjen]

Originally posted by SuperDud
Get a concealed carry permit.

 I concur. And use it if you have to, don't be afraid of the chance you'll get a liberal judge & jury. Better to be alive in court than dead.

[BTW]

If someone wants to kill you you, they can do it with a screwdriver, a box cutter, a baseball bat, a bar stool and countless other objects. If someone wants to kill 50, they require a more substantial weapon. Thats where I part company with the NRA. The right to bear arms is not the right to bear mass destruction and I resent the NRA's attempts to obscure that. Where are they today? No words of wisdom from the NRA? Where are the lobbyist of the NRA? Wouldn't it be cowardly if they didn't speak out in this hour or tragedy?

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by tedrbr
If not prevented by state law, I'm betting school policy prohibits it and you could be expelled for having one.  Just seems to be a standard policy.

My college has pretty standard rules on this, the only place for my weapon is IN my locked vehicle while on the campus.  That is the only situation that does not run afoul of school policies or state laws concerning my CCW --- not specified in writing by the rules (they would never put anything like that in print), but when you read the dos and don't (and between the lines), I'm covered.

Some schools go so far to prohibit guns anywhere on school property, including private vehicles.  Could still get you expelled, even though such a policy may be in conflict with state laws.  But, who's likely to have the better lawyer?

My school says you can get special permission to carry.  Doubt they really let anyone do it.



Oh, and BTW, the NRA is calmly sitting on their hands.  Unlike you, they don't want to come out and be the *******s who say so soon that an armed campus is a polite campus.

[devild0g]

If i where there i would become a human meat shield, i wouldn't think of it any other way, I am not depressed or anything. But who wouldn't go down for a friend knowing that you will be saving someone that bullet that you took? It was a 9mm..... i would of seen that and just wailed on his behind. It carries 9-12 rounds something like that unless it wasn't a normal glock. this would of turned out very much differently... there may of only been 2-6 dead and more wounded but not more than half of a class. Than the school... now they have to tell parents they wanted their children to go to class so that they would not miss.... but what really happened? 31 kids will never go back to that school again and the outcome??? They still ended up closing the school. Un-needed loss of human life? you betcha. Wrong way of dealing with something of this severity? yes, they had 2 hours and in those 2 hours not one guard could have trapped him in a room so that the violence could not have spread??? They couldn't move all the kids into the cafeteria under the table's which i am imagining was on the bottom floor? This is the fault of the virginia tech board of administration, They will be facing serious consequences for this. My final point, I hope this sends the government a message to pass a law stating that any serious situations on campus should be dealt with as professionally as humanly possible, with the safety of the students being the top priority.

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by vorticon
the only remotly realistic ways of fighting back i can think of are:

students hear gunshots in the next room and figure , rather than barricading our door, we'll get beside it with something heavy and club the next person who walks through...

or,

someone who happens to have a knife on them sees the shooter coming out  of a room just up the hall, and rushes him.

  I may not have my taurus on me at all times, but...




I'm personally curious as to how many letters to the editor will be written for tomorrow's edition that will be anti-gun biased.

[devild0g]

truedat truedat


"devild0g"  TEMPORARILY *COUGH COUGH* Suspended from aces high due to CC being stolen

[BTW]

Originally posted by lasersailor184

Oh, and BTW, the NRA is calmly sitting on their hands.  Unlike you, they don't want to come out and be the *******s who say so soon that an armed campus is a polite campus.

That's because an armed campus wouldn't stop a nut with a weapon of mass killing. Nothing short of martial law would've prevented today's tragedy. In the NRA's interest that anyone should be able to possess weapons able to take out an average infantry unit, we have given lunatics access to weapons of mass death. I just want to hear again how this protects our nation. I just want to hear again how so many people are killed with slingshots and knives. I just want their lobbyists to have the guts to crawl out from their rock when apathy is OFF. Bet you, that militia is AWOL.

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by BTW
That's because an armed campus wouldn't stop a nut with a weapon of mass killing. Nothing short of martial law would've prevented today's tragedy. In the NRA's interest that anyone should be able to possess weapons able to take out an average infantry unit, we have given lunatics access to weapons of mass death. I just want to hear again how this protects our nation. I just want to hear again how so many people are killed with slingshots and knives. I just want their lobbyists to have the guts to crawl out from their rock when apathy is OFF. Bet you, that militia is AWOL.

Prevent it?  No.  You really can't prevent anything.


But I can guarantee you that CCW's would have limited the severity.

[BTW]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Prevent it?  No.  You really can't prevent anything.


But I can guarantee you that CCW's would have limited the severity.

No you can't. It may have been worse as the guy may have planned it more precisely and used a faster gun. Nothing could have prevented it. The guy wasn't worried about dieing. All he needed was efficiency, and the NRA protects his right to it.

[devild0g]

Yeah this all leads to the phrase that goes something like "An armed america, is a safe america" (sorry if i killed that phrase)

[Shuckins]

Why should the NRA say anything now?  Would you listen?

The heads of Virginia Tech and nearly every campus in the country and most of the students and a large percentage of our population have adopted the philosophy of the NRA's opposite numbers:  you don't need and shouldn't carry a weapon in public......

From the news reports....the shooter didn't have weapons of massive power....he had two pistols....a 9mm and a .22.  He also had a totally defenseless group of students.  No guards, no armed citizens to contend with.....because our campuses have taken a largely political stance on gun-control.   Despite the "statistics" about the large number of guns owned in this country, most of our citizens, even ex-military types with training in combat and the use of weapons, are afraid to carry in public because of stigma attached to gun carry and the legal problems involved in actually using it in self-defense.

If nothing else comes from this horrible incident there should come the realization that the police CANNOT protect you.  All they accomplished today was to storm Norris Hall after the fact.

Nobody could do anything.....but we don't trust our fellow man to react competently with deadly force in such a situation.  The public outcry will pass more useless laws which will accomplish nothing except to punish the innocent.....and our campuses will remain tempting targets for nutcases and psychopaths.