Author Topic: Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST  (Read 4037 times)

Offline x0847Marine

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2007, 07:05:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stoney74
To think that Harry Reid is trying to tell the "truth" when he says "it is the biggest foreign policy mistake in U.S. history" is failing to understand the realities of U.S. politics.  Furthermore, for those of you that enjoy repeating this jingoism, how about posting a top ten list of American foreign policy mistakes so we can at least get some context.

Just as any U.S. foreign policy decision made between 1945 and 1991 cannot be taken out of the context of the Cold War, neither can our decision to invade Iraq be taken out of the context of the post-September 11 era.  



Speaking of context, as terrible awful bad and all that, 911 was, lets put it into context;

911 was one coordinated act of violence by a single group of cave dwellers that killed a bunch of Americans.... live on television.

Meanwhile more US citizens, not killed live, have been killed & victimized thanks to our govts laughable policies at the border.

In a literal sense 911, not taking into account rah rah patriotism of "American soil wuz attacked", was a drop in the dead US citizen bucket. Maybe its just me, but if the #1 killer of US citizens isn't the terrorists, WTF are we doing focusing on them?

I harp on this issue because of my personal experiences of meeting countless murder / rape / kidnapping etc victims committed by a failed border policy.... its almost like these victimized Americans don't count as much as the 911 victims, why is that?... we need to be slaughtered live in color for it to count?

Offline Nilsen

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2007, 07:10:47 AM »
The war is actually a huge success.

The domestic arms industry, foreign countries selling arms to the US, shareholders in halliburton and the world-wide oil industries are making a bundle.

:)

Offline john9001

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2007, 07:51:49 AM »
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Originally posted by rpm
With bombs killing 170+ people in a single day, the "successes" are greatly outweighed.


that is why the terriorsts blow up women and children, so people like you and Reid can say "the war is lost". You and Reid and the media are supporting the al qaeda propaganda machine.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2007, 08:16:33 AM »
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Originally posted by Elfie
Tell that to the mountain tribes in Vietnam itself. Those people were slaughtered by the Vietnamese.


He's probably never heard of the Montonyards (sp?). That's just one group.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline DREDIOCK

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2007, 08:26:39 AM »
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Originally posted by FiLtH
The reason there is because we try to be liberators not conquerors. If we lined up 10 people for every one of ours lost and shot them in the street, alot of the trouble would die down. But we dont do that. So really, why try?


What I was talking about had nothing at all to do with firing squads or executions.

I was talking about not removing alll the leadership from power. Military, police cheifs etc

Appealing to their own sense of patriotism as well as preservation to maintain order for the best of their country

Soldiers and police officers tend to follow their immediate leaders. Reguardless of whom is actually running the country.

You maintain this leadership untill you can gradually and in an orderly way replace it with another more to your liking
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Offline Nilsen

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2007, 08:28:23 AM »
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Originally posted by john9001
that is why the terriorsts blow up women and children, so people like you and Reid can say "the war is lost". You and Reid and the media are supporting the al qaeda propaganda machine.


And people that support the war are supporting Al Qaeda. Fighting them were they want it the most on their own turf. :)

Offline DREDIOCK

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2007, 08:28:38 AM »
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Originally posted by Viking


The really ironic thing about your statement is that it was the North-Vietnamese who, after winning the war against the US and South-Vietnam,  ended Pol Pot’s reign of terror in 1978.

 


Boy to hear you say it. One would think we got our butts kicked in Nam.
Nice spin
You sure you dont work for CNN?
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For those who wish to know
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What fate the future holds
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Offline Charon

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2007, 08:48:47 AM »
I would say tedrbr outlined my beliefs about 100 percent. The fate of Iraq may not be up to chance, but it's certainly not up to us anymore. We can only hope the eventual result is something we can work with down the road, and that has at least some of th flavor of what we were trying to accomplish. And if they ever get around to producing and selling their oil there won't be much choice from a practical standpoint.

Charon

Offline babek-

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2007, 09:27:21 AM »
I believe that the problem is not the USA or the politic of Bush. The problem is Iraq and how it was created.

Its not an old country like Iran, which exists since 500 BCA.

Instead it was created after WW1 out of the dead body of the Ottoman Empire. The UK took this part and mixed three totally different ethnical and religious groups into one "new nation".
Kurds, sunnites and shi ites.

And from that das - starting as a british protectorate - the sunnite minority was used to suppress the majority of the iraqi people.

This continued all the time, also when Iraq became an independant kingdom, then a republic and finally a Saddam ruled country.

So there was officially a single country Iraq but the different groups never really trusted each other.

This all could be controlled with a massive suppressing system like Saddam had.

So the solution to bring democracy couldnt work.
Or at least not in the naive way as it was tried.

The 3 groups voted mostly within their groups. Or to be more precise - first the sunnites dodnt went to vote. So the majority - the shi ites became the strongest party and political power. And they made an alliance with the kurds. And suddenly the former rulers of Iraq - the sunnites - were without power.

For sunnite fanatic countries like Saudi Arabia a nightmare.
Also for sunnite terrorist organisations like the Al Kaida.

There are ethnical cleanings in Iraq. Formerly mixed areas are now "pure". The minorities have been forced to move away. The kurds kicked out the sunnite arabs from the northern part - the shi ites the sunnites from the southeast and in Bagdad all become worse because now there are ethnical pure districts within the same city.

And the civil war is also going on. Al Kaidfa and other Saudi-Arabia-Supported sunnite terror groups use suicide bombings on shi ite and kurd targets.

The shi ites use their new power as policemen and military of the new iraqi army to kill sunnites. Also shi ite militas, supported by Iran, are operating.

This situation cant be controlled because in my opinion there is no single iraqi people. There was too much hate between the 3 groups and they are now fighting their war. No army in the world can stop them and the best solution would be to cut Iraq in 3 independant countries.

That wont happen, because Turkey cant accept an independant Kurdistan which would destabilize their own country.
Also the shi ite region would become an islamic republic, very much like Iran, which is also not acceptable.

And so the situation will go on - all the fightings, the deaths and no hope for a fast solution.

But its not the fault of the occupation forces. The fault started, when this so called country was created after WW1.

Offline Elfie

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2007, 10:38:23 AM »
Well said babek. I agree with you. It's just so much easier for people to blame Bush when the reality of the situation is that those 3 groups of people have never gotten along.
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Offline Elfie

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2007, 10:44:04 AM »
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
He's probably never heard of the Montonyards (sp?). That's just one group.


I don't recall the correct spelling atm either, but how you spelled it is how it is pronounced. :D
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Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2007, 10:45:07 AM »
Montagnards.
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
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Offline john9001

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2007, 10:55:22 AM »
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Originally posted by babek-

Instead it was created after WW1 out of the dead body of the Ottoman Empire. The UK took this part and mixed three totally different ethnical and religious groups into one "new nation".
Kurds, sunnites and shi ites.
 


how many different ethnic and religious groups live in the USA?

if they can live together in the USA, they can live together in Iraq, or africa or bosina or wherever.

i don't buy this "i have to kill my neighbor because he is different".

Offline SteveBailey

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2007, 10:58:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
SteveBailey quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by FrodeMk3

There were no terrorist ties.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Liar.


And this one, too:



Liar.

Son, you just can't simply fling poo.

You need to add a counterpoint, contradicting info, etc.

Go ahead, try it, dig a little, put something up to prove it.





How about you prove there were no terrosit ties?  You are the one who said it.  How can I give a counterpoint to something which you've simply spewed form your mouth with no data/support whatsoever?

Son, you can't simply fling poo.  Go ahead, try it, dig a little.  Put something up to prove there were no terrorist ties in Iraq.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2007, 11:00:50 AM by SteveBailey »

Offline Elfie

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2007, 11:15:32 AM »
There were ties to terrorists in Iraq. There were at least 2 terrorist training camps and the Sadman was paying the families of suicide bombers in Israel. There just weren't any ties to Al-Qaeada.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.