Author Topic: b-25's 75mm  (Read 2821 times)

Offline Lusche

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b-25's 75mm
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2007, 07:25:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Serenity
So... is that a yes? Is it confirmed to have the 75mm?



No.
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Offline Stoney74

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b-25's 75mm
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2007, 07:32:59 PM »
Should be closer to 6 rounds per minute.  VMB-613 after-action reports suggest that they could get 2 rounds off on a run starting from 1500 meters from the target.  If they made their runs at 250mph ground speed, they covered roughly 150 yards a second.  10 second total time on the run, give or take.  If they started with one round in the chamber, they only had time enough for one more round over that distance, which would be much closer to a 6 round per minute average (or roughly one round every 10 seconds).

Offline Warspawn

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b-25's 75mm
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2007, 07:57:38 PM »
...and of course if they started with no round chambered for safety reasons, they would get two rounds loaded and fired on that run.

So one round every 5 seconds.  A bit slower than reloading your average M1-A1 120mm, but entirely reasonable...

Although since our engagement ranges in AH vs. GV's with this weapon will be very limited due to the gunsite, maybe a bit faster reload is in order to simulate overall effectiveness more closely.

Should be on-par with the Pz-IV reload; a tank bouncing along at 30mph over terrain is pretty hard to reload.  Not simulated in this game, of course, since rate of fire is consistent no matter the speed or terrain.


Quick, someone go buy the dvd!  :lol  
Quote
* Winged Artillery (1944 color) Nine 75mm canon firing B-25Gs of the 48th Bomb Squadron, 7AAF, based on Apamama in the Gilbert Islands, conduct a hair raising tree top level strike on the Japanese air base on Mille...


http://www.zenosflightshop.com/B_25_DVD_p/b-25dvd.htm&Click=87
« Last Edit: June 03, 2007, 08:05:16 PM by Warspawn »
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Offline tedrbr

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b-25's 75mm
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2007, 12:09:14 AM »
Like stated, the 75mm cannon that was mounted on B-25's, both field mods, and later factory builds, were crew-loaded.  Loader would unstrap a round, place it in the load tray, ram the round home, close the breach, and let the pilot know that a round was up and ready to fire.

The loader could not do this if the place were pulling any G's to speak of.

If HTC codes in the 75mm, how they address the rate of fire, and loading under G's, will determine in the end how many rounds you could get down range, how accurate, and how many shots per strafing run.

Of note, at least field modified B-25's with 75mm often retired their airframes in about 20 shots fired, as the rivets began to round out (at which point, the plane would become a parts bin).

Also, 75mm equipped B-25's seemed to be best at anti-shipping operations.  Sampans, unarmored freighters, trawlers:  all part of the effort to isolate and starve out Japanese held islands by stopping all their resupply efforts.  Later, many factory equipped 75mm armed B-25's pulled the 75mm out and they field modified them by adding more .50's, as massed numbers of .50's (often with API rounds) proved to be more effective in anti-shipping and other CAS operations.

Also, 20 to 25 rounds was a typical load out for the 75mm cannon.  

I think a lot of people think they are getting an uber anti-tank platform with a B-25 equipped with a 75mm cannon.  I think they will be sadly disappointed.

Offline Warspawn

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b-25's 75mm
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2007, 01:03:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by tedrbr
Of note, at least field modified B-25's with 75mm often retired their airframes in about 20 shots fired, as the rivets began to round out (at which point, the plane would become a parts bin).



Wasn't the -H designed from the ground up to mount the 75mm though?

I don't think we ever really mess with 'field mods' here, or else I'd want that super-strafer P-38!

Also, wasn't the T13E1 75mm specifically designed for the B-26H and the ground-attack role?  Heck, if the Italians could do it successfully with a naval gun (102mm?) on their bomber... :cool:

Quote

Wednesday, July 28, 1943 was a warm day off the island of New Britain in the Bismarck Sea. Three Japanese destroyers were steaming on course 280° over the flat, mirror like water at 20 knots. Suddenly a lookout called "aircraft, low off the port beam!". Another lookout identified the planes as American B-25 bombers, notorious for their "skip bombing" against destroyers. All guns were trained on the interlopers. Suddenly, while the aircraft were still more than a mile (1.6 km) away, a great geyser of water shot up close by the destroyers. The lookouts began frantically searching the sea; there had to be a ship close by with cannon aboard. But there was none! Suddenly, one of the destroyers was hit. It exploded in flames and sank in just a few minutes. Was it possible these aircraft had some new and diabolical weapon?

On the contrary; it was the very same old 75 mm M-4 field cannon used to rout the Germans in WW1! A few months before the incident, Colonel Paul Gunn of the US Fifth Air Force in Australia, had experimented with the installation of a 20 mm cannon in the nose of a B-25. Colonel Gunn, abetted by a North American Aviation Company Tech Rep named Jack Fox, sent the idea to North American in Inglewood, California where it was promptly taken a step further and worked into the installation of the 75 mm cannon.

...It required a crewman to load, fire and extract the casing. And when it fired it felt like the aircraft had "hit a brick wall", but with its 2.95 inch (75 mm) projectile, it could turn a tank into scrap metal and punch very large holes in Japanese destroyers and barges at a range of nearly 2 miles...


http://www.aviation-history.com/north-american/b25.html  
*edit:  this article was about the 'G'; the H improved on the design...
« Last Edit: June 04, 2007, 01:10:25 AM by Warspawn »
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Offline Stoney74

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b-25's 75mm
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2007, 01:22:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Warspawn
Wasn't the -H designed from the ground up to mount the 75mm though?
...Also, wasn't the T13E1 75mm specifically designed for the B-26H and the ground-attack role?


Yes.  VMB-613 typically carried 21 rounds for the gun, and their aircraft flew for months with no mention of rivets popping.

Offline Tony Williams

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b-25's 75mm
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2007, 02:15:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by tedrbr
Like stated, the 75mm cannon that was mounted on B-25's, both field mods, and later factory builds, were crew-loaded.  Loader would unstrap a round, place it in the load tray, ram the round home, close the breach, and let the pilot know that a round was up and ready to fire.


The pilot would then have to make a final check on aiming, and fire the gun. The gun will then recoil in its mounting, the breech will open automatically, and the fired case will be ejected. The recoil spring then moves the gun back into battery. Only then can the loader insert a new round.

I can imagine the above sequence taking five seconds, if the plane was flying steadily.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

Offline B3YT

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b-25's 75mm
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2007, 02:42:00 AM »
if the 25 ever gets a 75 the mossie should get a molans......and a CoG fix
As the cleaners say :"once more unto the bleach"

Offline Willfly

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b-25's 75mm
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2007, 03:05:43 PM »
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Originally posted by Nilsen
We wont get the 75 for the B25.


I remember hearing VERY clearly from an Aces High administrator on one of these forums that we are receiving different models of the B-25 INCLUDING the one with the Anti-Ship 75mm

Offline Krusty

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b-25's 75mm
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2007, 03:06:42 PM »
Quote or link, please.

Offline Willfly

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b-25's 75mm
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2007, 03:12:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Quote or link, please.


Regretfully, that was a long time ago so I have no clue where it is now.

Otherwise I have something I need to point out, There are 2 versions (as far as I know) of the B-25 Mitchell with a 75mm. There is the B-25G and B-25H the B25G according to sources is armed with a modified "French 75" designated the M4, The B-25H has numerous design changes such as the gun and the body of the aircraft. The B-25H is armed with a lighter 75mm T13E1 (Eventually used on the M24 "Chaffee" Light Tank, eliminated provisions for 2000lb'ers, eliminated ventral gun turret, eliminated certain armor plating, added two extra M2HB .50 Calibers, tail was raised an fuselage was deepened, dorsal turret was moved up  to navigator's compartment and made larger, cockpit instruments rearranged,and FINALLY "Bay windows" for the waist gunners.

PS.: It would be much easier to model the B-25G since the B-25H is one real intimidating task when you also have other 'regular' B-25's to worry about

EDIT: Just a follow up for the message from Krusty after this one, It is more like around the time when the recent upgrade was made, but yeah I guess your right since that decision is likely to not be final (The one where they added the Sherman VC Firefly)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2007, 03:49:19 PM by Willfly »

Offline Krusty

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b-25's 75mm
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2007, 03:14:34 PM »
A long time, as in 3 years ago? Or as in, since the vote was finished?


Most of the stuff I've seen has not been definite. They've hinted (via Pyro I think) that we might get the 75mm gunned version, but no final decision was listed as far as I've noticed.

Offline OdinGrunherze

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b-25's 75mm
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2007, 06:14:00 AM »
The 75 would be nice.... But just make sure thet we get delayed fusing for our bombs... Or parachutes for them.... So we can make REALISTIC low level attacks....

It's FUN to attack at 100ft.... It's BORING to level bomb at 6,8,10k.....
And skip bombing is a MUST HAVE as well.....

It would give some protection from fighters too... They would be limited in the angle that they could attack from.... No diving attack, no under belly attacks....

Wow think of the really great film from the AA gunners, under massed low level attack.....

At 100ft a bomber could plug a bomb right inside a hanger...

OG
« Last Edit: June 05, 2007, 06:28:42 AM by OdinGrunherze »

Offline tedrbr

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b-25's 75mm
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2007, 01:17:50 PM »
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Originally posted by OdinGrunherze
The 75 would be nice.... But just make sure thet we get delayed fusing for our bombs... Or parachutes for them.... So we can make REALISTIC low level attacks....
It's FUN to attack at 100ft.... It's BORING to level bomb at 6,8,10k.....
And skip bombing is a MUST HAVE as well.....

Other than jeeps and M3's, and maybe field guns, what do you plan to use parafrags on?  Also, you won't be accurate, AFAIK, Norden bomb sites were not good for low level attacks, and certainly not calibrated to take into account the drag from chutes of parafrags.  Delayed fusing?  To what purpose?  I've never gotten caught in my own blast area before in the game.

Skip bombing also would require a lot of coding to incorporate, and I don't see the real benefit, as TG's are so easy to kill now with level bombers.

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It would give some protection from fighters too... They would be limited in the angle that they could attack from.... No diving attack, no under belly attacks....

Not fitr pilot's fault you all voted for a slow, early war, medium bomber with similar defensive limitations and lower performance numbers than the B-26.  In fact, I suspect many fitr pilots voted FOR the slow, low performance, easy kill to pad their scores for a month or two after release.

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Wow think of the really great film from the AA gunners, under massed low level attack.....

OG  meet  ghi.  Watch for his bish missions in LW.  Many Marauders swarming a field.  Have film ready.

Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

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b-25's 75mm
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2007, 05:53:53 PM »
If anyone has flown a A20 only to watch panzers zip cannon rounds past your windshield, i dont belive the b25 will be to hard of a target to hit.

Its big, it cant realy roll or dive quickly.


my guess is, they will fall just as easy to a tank round as the tank will to its round.


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