Author Topic: Gun crazy Swiss (Read 6992 times)

lazs2 · « **Reply #270 on:** July 02, 2007, 08:05:05 AM »

LOL... angus.. you still can't name a gun control law that was put into place anywhere that worked can you?

People here by the tens of thousands go around armed all the time and cause no problem.

Since you can't name a law that worked... this will probly be another question that you have no logical answer for.... What guns should I be allowed to have and where should I be allowed to take them?

I believe our country is far to restrictive... I simply point to the fact that the more people who go armed in this country the lower the crime rate.

So what laws are "good" gun laws to you? Who decides who is allowed to defend themselves?

What do you say to the family who is victim of a home invasion robbery because you made sure that they were unarmed?

In Va the school where the shooting took place of almost 30 people.. up until last year it was allowed for people to carry concealed. some board members just as ignorant and dangerous as you took away that right.

Let me ask you... if we were in a classroom that day...hiding while a madman went up and down the hall killing unarmed students... who would you want in the room with you... me with a .45 Kimber or... some board member with your mentality that had passed the "gun free zone" ordinance?

You are playing god when you disarm people.. I find that offensive in the extreme... you are the enemy.

lazs

Charon · « **Reply #271 on:** July 02, 2007, 08:27:33 AM »

Quote

Yes.
However enormously, almost infinately more likely to get shot in the USA than in my country.

In terms of real risk the difference would not be sufficient for it to enter my mind, or significantly change any behavior I might have in either country. I know this from experience. While I am hardly a man of the world, I have spent some time in some of the the notable cities of Europe as well as the US and found I took the same minor precautions in all. Know where you are, know where the "bad" areas are. Avoid those areas. Be alert.

Have you ever been to the US, Angus?

Of course, in both the US and most of Europe alcohol kills far more people than firearms. I would assume you would be equally agreeable to add significant additional restrictions on alcohol for the common good, such as limiting consumption to low-alcohol content beers (no spirits allowed), and not served in any locations, such as a pub, where driving might be involved. An entirely reasonable solution for a misused industrial solvent (and an issue under consideration in various forms by the EU health commissions and national health services -- Cheers!).

Charon

lazs2 · « **Reply #272 on:** July 02, 2007, 08:37:28 AM »

charon.. angus is only interested in limiting other peoples freedoms. He is quite confident that he could get an exemption for anything that he enjoys or feels he "needs".

I bet there are a lot of people in his country that consider him the enemy. I bet there are people who want guns and can't have em who don't feel that the laws are fair... they might not have the same trust for the system that allows some to have guns and not others that angus has.

lazs

Jackal1 · « **Reply #273 on:** July 02, 2007, 08:43:56 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKIron
Define vastly.

Please take a number and get in line on the Angus definition list.
He seems to overlook such things.

Of course we have went into the "I`m offended for Russia" mode at the moment.

P47Gra · « **Reply #274 on:** July 02, 2007, 05:40:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by McFarland
The freedom is the RIGHT to protect yourself. Gun control doesn't get rid of guns, it gets rid of the honest man's guns. And the crooks keep theirs. And crowded enviroments are the worst places to be, too many people. No, it is not true freedom to feel safe with out a gun, that is called false security. No matter where you go, there will be idiots and crooks, and a man has the right to defend himself from such people.

Thank you you have made more sense than anyone on this thread. I could have not said it better myself.

Gun owner and self-proclaimed gun freak.

Jugman

Angus · « **Reply #275 on:** July 02, 2007, 06:56:33 PM »

Charon:
"Of course, in both the US and most of Europe alcohol kills far more people than firearms."

Yes.

Then give guns to them drunken ones....neat ones?

As for the word "Vastly", I am sure that you native english speakers can find out that it means...a lot?

If we had US statistics we should have 8 people dead by gun murder since last July. The poll stands at 0.
8/0=?

Shuckins · « **Reply #276 on:** July 02, 2007, 07:52:09 PM »

Angus, the total number of violent crimes in Iceland in the year 2005 numbered only 27. Of those, 15 were murders.

The total number of convictions for that same period, for ALL violations of the penal code, numbered only 715....for the whole dang country.

When you're arguing for the effectiveness of gun laws in your own country you're dealing from a stacked deck. You don't HAVE a crime problem of any sort...period. We could arm every single law-abiding citizen in your country and your statistics wouldn't change one single percentage point.

The comparison of Iceland's gun-crime statistics versus those of the United States doesn't hold water for that very reason.

Regards, Shuckins

Suave · « **Reply #277 on:** July 02, 2007, 07:57:19 PM »

Charon · « **Reply #278 on:** July 02, 2007, 08:19:15 PM »

here's a neat John Stossel 20/20 piece on firearm regulation and crime reduction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_YTM_eAWnQ

And a links showing how fast parts of Europe are catching up to the US, regulations or no regulations. The spread of the US style inner city street gang, and Gang Bangers don't obey gun laws.

Quote

Gun and knife killings are getting out of control as six Londoners were murdered over the past week and one child is stabbed to death each week, anti-crime campaigners warned...

He added although government figures show a small reduction in gun related crime, it is under reported and has to be viewed against "unprecedented" high levels of knife and gun crime over the last five years.

Although the Trust welcomed the fact the majority of murders leads to an

arrest and conviction, prevention is a better cure it said.

Mr Brennan said: "There are currently 270 recorded firearm related offences committed on the streets of Britain every week."

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=MK2438914E&news_headline=gun_and_knife_murders_out_of_control

I still wouldn't hesitate to visit London though (any more than I will hesitate going into downtown Chicago tomorrow for the Taste of Chicago and 3rd of July Fireworks show; I'd just (and will tomorrow) stay out of the handful of neighborhoods where such crime typically (overwhelmingly) happens.

BTW, I'll be sharing the lake front with over 1,000,000 people -- three times the population of Iceland packed into in about 2 square miles (though there may only be 300,000 or so at any one time -- of all ethnic backgrounds and economic strata. Done it plenty of times with no fear.

Charon

Jackal1 · « **Reply #279 on:** July 03, 2007, 06:09:59 AM »

Sometimes visual aids will help when dealing with the slower student.

Shuckins · « **Reply #280 on:** July 03, 2007, 07:14:19 AM »

The Uniform Crime Reporting Program reports that the number of murders in the United States, from all causes (guns, knives, etc.) for the year 2004 was 16,100. That yielded a murder rate of 5.1 per 100,000 population. That rate has held true for the last several years, having fallen from a high of 24,000 per year.

Iceland has a population of approximately 300,000. There were fifteen murders in the country during the year 2005. That yielded an overall murder rate of 5 per 100,000.

The two rates then are 5.1 to 5. That's about as close as one can get statistically. If these rates are typical, then the U.S., which has 1,000 times the population SHOULD have about 1,000 times the number of murders that Iceland does.

lazs2 · « **Reply #281 on:** July 03, 2007, 07:54:42 AM »

hmm... our white murder rate is less than 3 per 100,000.. about like canada.. wonder what icelands was... probly all of that 5 per 100,000.

maybe they are giving too many guns to guys like angus? Or... not enough to everyone else?

I most certainly will want a gun when I know people like angus exist.

lazs

Shuckins · « **Reply #282 on:** July 03, 2007, 08:04:52 AM »

Lasz, et al, read the article at this site. It is well written and researched and explains in accurate, if unpopular terms, what has happened to British gun rights over the last century, and discusses the attitudes of British law toward the carrying of ANY weapon for self-defense.

Note particularly that around the year 1900, before any major gun control laws were passed in England, that the total number of gun murders in London, the largest city in the world at that time, could be counted in single digits. In essence, Britain did not HAVE a gun problem.

Not by coincidence, the first gun laws were passed around the time the British government became concerned about the growing communist movement among the nation's workers, and its "potential" for violence.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html

Draw your own conclusions.

Regards, Shuckins

lazs2 · « **Reply #283 on:** July 03, 2007, 08:25:48 AM »

Yes.. I have read joyce lee malcoms excellent book on the subject.

The reason citizens become disarmed is because the government fears them.

In our country it has always been assumed that having the government fear you is a good thing. In the socialist countries it is considered a bad thing.

With that simple difference... we will never understand the socialists and they will never understand us.

lazs

Torque · « **Reply #284 on:** July 03, 2007, 11:48:10 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
hmm... our white murder rate is less than 3 per 100,000.. about like canada.. wonder what icelands was... probly all of that 5 per 100,000.

maybe they are giving too many guns to guys like angus? Or... not enough to everyone else?

I most certainly will want a gun when I know people like angus exist.

lazs

well...that's being a tad disingenuous.

the combined murder rate here is around 1.8 per 100,000...but your forte is the race card so...lets play.

throw out all the aboriginal homicide, all these distraught immigrants killing there wives and kids, plus all the gang-bangers committing public service homicides, the white murder rate is probably close to .6-.7 per 100,000.

angus...you can't understand the states unless you go there.

there are plenty of safe white picket fence neighbourhoods, but also there are rather large generational ghettos, the lasting residual effects from centuries of in-house slavery.

it's creepy man...you'd want a glock.