Gun crazy Swiss

[lazs2]

If I moved to iceland I would be in danger of committing  suicide.   you guys must   have em doing it front of you everywhere you go... who could live like that?

I am glad that we don't have your government that causes all those suicides.

lazs

[Shuckins]

If I stand in the middle of the highway that runs in front of my house, I can see approximately 2 miles to the north and a mile or so to the south.

In the last 10 years there have been nine highway fatalities within those limits.

Gun fatalities within the same area?  Zero.

[storch]

Originally posted by Shuckins
If I stand in the middle of the highway that runs in front of my house, I can see approximately 2 miles to the north and a mile or so to the south.

In the last 10 years there have been nine highway fatalities within those limits.

Gun fatalities within the same area?  Zero.

very good point

[McFarland]

Gun control isn't, wasn't, and never will be the answer. Criminal control is the answer. Put a few more in the ground, and you can bet they'll settle down.

[Angus]

Originally posted by lazs2
If I moved to iceland I would be in danger of committing  suicide.   you guys must   have em doing it front of you everywhere you go... who could live like that?

I am glad that we don't have your government that causes all those suicides.

lazs

The least risk of suicide in the world for the latitude. (that's a cultural thing though). But you can, to your pleasure do it with a shotgun

You might also be under the risk to be very happy

[Angus]

Charon:
"Who would that be? Personally I know 3 people who have died alcohol related deaths and not a single individual involved in firearm violence."

Not kidding, there was a thread about this some good while ago, and some posters had actually been shot!

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Angus
Depends?
These are overall statistic. The difference is actually quite great.

I showed you a specific example of where the victims didn't have ready access to firearms.
My bet is that many more unarmed people were murdered in that war than all the accidental firearms deaths in all the world let alone the US.

As many here have pointed out, getting shot is so low of a threat that it's not much to get worried about. The average person is more likely to die from a car accident, alcohol, smoking, fatty foods, violent acts not involving a gun, etc.

Given the choice, I'd rather have some crazy people with guns rather than bombs (Oklahoma Federal Building bombing), or flying airliners into tall buildings (9/11).

Gee, had we had some armed marshals or qualified citizens in those airliners, bet we wouldn't be taking our shoes off at airports right now.

Care to show me where stronger anti-gun laws lowered the violent crime rate?

[Angus]

Well, you have 8000+ murdered with firearms in the USA every year. That basically means that you are much more likely to be shot dead in the USA than being murdered in the UK. Note, that means shot dead, not just shot.
You are also more likely to be robbed, raped or assaulted than in the UK.
And the UK is NOT the best or perhaps even the average in W-Europe.

W-Europe is more densely populated than the USA. It has many more languages and an amalgam of cultures. The population is also MORE. It has many many cities with millions of inhabitants. So, to cut a long story short, this little continent has every factor that has been described on this thread as the recipe for high crime.
And yet it is so much lower than in the USA. Overall stats. Dot. Punctum.
Me and Charon tend to disagree about the reason, he puts more weight on the cultural/social factor, I put more weight on the difference in access to weapons. That's just that. So call me daft, but I still think that if you start handing out Colts all over Euroland, you will definately see more bullet marks.

[AKIron]

Guns do come in handy for more than keeping your own government or your neighbor's governement in line. From today's local paper:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-robberyshoot_01met.ART.North.Edition1.43b8c05.html

[lazs2]

angus.. you are aware that we have almost 300 million folks in the US?    That more than half our homicides are committed by one or two minorities... firearms or not?

Would you feel better if they committed suicide or were pushed off cliffs?

The homicide rate and crime rate for both australia and england has not gone down with their recent gun bans and draconian laws..  crime in states in the US that has allowed for the right to carry concealed has gone down.

When you compare apples to apples it becomes pretty apparent.   The decaying, lilly white  societies of your-0-peean socialism can in no way be compared the vibrant and diverse society of America.

Just as you wouldn't not live in a paradise because it had a slightly higher chance of lightning striking you...  You would not destroy the freedom that is America just because you wanted to turn it into some your-0-peeean style craphole.    

Soviet russia had gun control and low crime and socialism... If you talk to boroda... it was a workers paradise.   low crime and no shootings (other than the government shooting it's people).

Why not strive for that?

lazs

[Jackal1]

Once again, research seems to have bogged down.

[Angus]

Lazs:
"angus.. you are aware that we have almost 300 million folks in the US? That more than half our homicides are committed by one or two minorities... firearms or not?"

Yes, I do. 1000x our population, which makes comparisons easy to calculate. According to that, to stay in line with the USA, we should have a humble 12 murders last year, 8 out of them by firearms. Guess what...we're probably at 0. (that's a lucky thing though).
Then minorities. Which? Well, you have corpses then anyway.
Our minorities also make a racket, and I'm glad that the baltic people up here are NOT better armed than they are. Last homocide attempt was from lithuania vs same.

As for this:

"Would you feel better if they committed suicide or were pushed off cliffs?"

Do you think that easier access to firearms would lower suicide rates?
And cliffs? Well, in your homeland it is probably 1000 times more likely to get shot to death than ever being pushed off a cliff up here or in Euroland.

And here:
"When you compare apples to apples it becomes pretty apparent. The decaying, lilly white societies of your-0-peean socialism can in no way be compared the vibrant and diverse society of America."

Have you ever been to Europe? You sure don't seem to know much about the place. Maybe you don't trust yourself over without your gun, and since you can't fly ith one, then no-go?
 Anyway, this statement is rather offensive tho the continent, which after all has more than 300 million inhabitants on an area smaller than the USA, but yet very much less murders, rapes and robberies.

As for Socialism, - I have been comparing W-Europe with the USA. So, I inform you that W-Europe is and was not under any commie regime, - but anyway, the murder rate is still lower in Russia than it is in the USA. I hope Boroda joins in and fills you up on this one

And le finale:

"Just as you wouldn't not live in a paradise because it had a slightly higher chance of lightning striking you... You would not destroy the freedom that is America just because you wanted to turn it into some your-0-peeean style craphole. "

That "lightning" leaves a lot of corpses. And the freedom is for whom? Try to imagine a crowded environment where it doesn't even cross your mind that you need a conceilable firearm just to protect yourself. It is true freedom to be able to feel safe without S&W in the pocket.
Places where you can not live so are called .... crapholes?

(I am grossely insulted on the behalf of the European continent, - and Russia)

[Charon]

Not kidding, there was a thread about this some good while ago, and some posters had actually been shot!

The only one I remember was a thread where a guy faked an incident to be a BBS hero. It was clearly proven to be a false story. I usually pay attention to such threads and that is the only one I am aware of on this board.

Charon

[McFarland]

Originally posted by Angus
And le finale:

"Just as you wouldn't not live in a paradise because it had a slightly higher chance of lightning striking you... You would not destroy the freedom that is America just because you wanted to turn it into some your-0-peeean style craphole. "

That "lightning" leaves a lot of corpses. And the freedom is for whom? Try to imagine a crowded environment where it doesn't even cross your mind that you need a conceilable firearm just to protect yourself. It is true freedom to be able to feel safe without S&W in the pocket.
Places where you can not live so are called .... crapholes?

(I am grossely insulted on the behalf of the European continent, - and Russia)

The freedom is the RIGHT to protect yourself. Gun control doesn't get rid of guns, it gets rid of the honest man's guns. And the crooks keep theirs. And crowded enviroments are the worst places to be, too many people. No, it is not true freedom to feel safe with out a gun, that is called false security. No matter where you go, there will be idiots and crooks, and a man has the right to defend himself from such people.

[Angus]

Seems to work the other way in Euroland then. Guns being not so common in rotation = no need for a conceilable weapon to carry on yourself.

As for the freedom, are you allowed to carry a Beretta in your pocket anywhere in the USA?
And oh, the humanity, you can't have one on flights. You can't even smoke!

BTW, again, we do have the right to own and have a gun as long as our record is clean. Just no conceilable multiround arms and assault rifles (& upwards). I am thinking of a 22-250 next. That is the case in my country, and in the rest of Europe the rules vary. What cuts Euroland off the USA is more gun control, - i.e. it is more trouble getting a gun, - you have to register it etc. Be a nice Johnny, and get yourself a licence, and you can own, have, and shoot guns. Just like me
But I can't have a small one to fit in my back pocket, nor may I carry one to the cinema. Happily, for I look upon it as a slice of freedom to be able to go to "Die Hard 4" without expecting anybody in the darkness to whisper "Yippie-Kay-Yeah MOF" with a Colt in their hand.....