Author Topic: Gun crazy Swiss  (Read 8681 times)

Offline Toad

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« Reply #225 on: June 27, 2007, 10:14:06 AM »
I'd wager most people posting here from the US are as unlikely to be shot as you are Angus.

The big cities have the high homicide rates. The smaller cities and rural areas do not.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #226 on: June 27, 2007, 10:48:30 AM »
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Originally posted by Angus
"Yes, as long as the local Barney Fife doesn`t hold any personal or unwritten prejudice against you"
? Explain please.
 


What part don`t you understand?

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As absolute rubbish, since criminals in countries with rather stiffer laws (such as up here) are having trouble with arming themselves.  


Talk about your rubbish. Having trouble arming themselves my aching back. You know not of what you speak. Exactly what are you basing that little gem of a theory on? There are very, very few places around the globe that you cannot obtain gun more than easily.....unless of course you are a law abider.  Then if you are under bans , heavy restrictions, etc. you are at the mercy of the attacker if and when the time comes because you can`t be trusted by those in power. You might get a little cocky and get out of hand.  You don`t have a clue what is going on in the criminal world.............other than "My Government tells me so". they know what`s best for you . :)

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There are always some arms around, but not much.


LOL Plenty enough to be easily had if at any given time someone wish to put the hurt on someone else......especialy since they have had any chance of defense taken away from them.

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Not much of them here I'm afraid.


:rofl

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The murderers usually become ones after a scruffle, so it's a thing like a fist or a knife that usually is the weapon.


Well I certainly hope that someone in power up that way is on top of this and immediately proposed knife/fist bans.

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No gun victim for years now, but oddly the last one was from a handgun.


The shooter law enforcement or one of those non-existent type? :rofl

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There was this guy running around with a rifle the other day, but since that could be seen from a mile away, he had the SWAT in his driveway before he could say "Amen".


Can`t have that. Want us to look into sending some of our Ninja garbed ATF guys up?

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As for the pesky citizens they don't have assault rifles like you can buy on the gunfairs in Oklahoma, nor do they have automatic handguns.


I am still waiting on your definition for "assault rifle". I am patient , but it seems like your research has bogged down.

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But they do have automatic shotguns and non-automatic rifles, as well as automatic light rifles (up to .22 magnum lever operated as well).


I assume you are referring to semi-auto.

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Bottom line again, it is much more unprobable that a criminal in Europe is armed than in the USA, and as well it is much more unprobable to find oneself on the receiving end of a bullet, or looking into a barrel.


Those unlucky one`s that do end up on the receiving end probably take great comfort in their death knowing that their government took away any chance of defense against their attackers. They are just stat spoilers anyway.
It is not at all more unprobable that a criminal is unarmed anywhere if they are armed. It is a given that it is not only probable, but a fact ,that if your right to like defense has been taken away by a governing body you are at the total whim of the armed attacker......and you will be looked down upon for being a stat spoiler.

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It`s reality.


As long as you are not the one laying in the casket and believe your governing body has a right to totaly dictate over your life and defense of that life. Then again you are really pushing things because you happen to be one of those mishappen, unlucky goofs that was at the wrong place, at the wrong time and ran into one of those uncharted/unstatable criminals who just as soon take your life as not. Don`t those guys ever read the laws? If they did they would know that the government is doing their absolute best to protect them from ending up accountable at tally time.
There should be a law put in force in such places that prohibits you from standing in the direct line of fire from an unstable`s gun fire. The nerve of some citizens to waste the criminal`s ammo and then go on to mess up the stas. Sheesh!

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On the other side, if you break into a house with evil intentions, even mine, (you can walk in, I don't know where the key is anyway), you may just as well find yourself looking into a barrel,


As you are fumbling around in the dark locating and getting a general direction of the intruder, if he just happens to be one of those " a few , but not many" types.....close your eyes so the flash will not blind you as your are going down. Those criminals refuse to go by the laws. Just unfair to those of you that have been left without the tool to equal the chances of survival. there ought to be a law................


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What is this about an assault rifle anyway?


I don`t know. I am still awaiting your research into your definition of such.


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I am looking for a decent sniper rifle to drop them geese at 250 yards or more.


Uh Oh.............now you are going to have to add another one to the research definition list.
If I am getting close to the type of firearm that you are talking about, I might as well get it off my chest and confess to being guilty of owning such a thing at one time.
A custom built benchrest rifle. Remington 700 action, Douglas bull barrel, 6 to 18 Redfield scope (Oooh how I wish they still made them scopes. I could then become a star gazer:) )
Canjar double set trigger...........fitted, relieved, floated, glass bedded. Accuracy to the point of shame.
Of course that was then. I have since cleansed myself of such an evil contraption. :)
It went almost everywhere I did in a vehicle for a long period of time. Made so much cash with that thing that I still have feelings of guilt. :) Did support my family though two really bad winters though. Shameless, I`m telling you.

I tell you what. I may have sold that thing just in the nick of time before I ran upon a circumstance by accident and been tempted to do something really stupid with it...............like save a few innocent lives. Take for instance if I had been unlucky enough to have ran upon and incident such as the big bank robbery shootout that happened in California. You know the guys with the full autos that we peons can`t possess without selling our sole, but those guys can...because they are criminals and or not bound by such sillyness....... not to mention the full body armor they had.
Since that rifle went in the vehicle most everywhere, and I had happened to be in such a situation, I could have and most definitely would have, sat at a comfortably safe distance and popped those exposed melons in a very short time and at will.
Wheeeeeeew.....lucked out on those accounts. Someone so equipped in such a situation would have saved a few innocent folks from being on the recieving end of those hits.
Then there would have been ruckus. Such a thing would have left the highly educated and misguided gun ban /gun control freaks totaly without proper media stats.
If there had been a law prohibiting those criminals from being in possession of such firearms at the time all this could have been avoided....right?  
No wait..............those laws would only apply to the law abiding portion of society. The criminals are not hampered by such things.
It`s a good thing too. If the average, law abiding citizen were allowed to have such things in their possession at will then those morons wouldn`t have lasted long enough to do all that damage.
It just wouldn`t be fair to the career criminal.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #227 on: June 27, 2007, 02:27:22 PM »
angus... since you can't give me an example of any gun law anywhere reducing homicide or serious crime... or... suicide...

I will just have to assume that you don't really like guns and handguns in particular.

you say that you and your fellows would love to own handguns...  you are unable to show anywhere that prohibiting handguns reduces homicide or serious crime... you do talk of your fellow citizens as "fools"

maybe you are right...  maybe you are the one country in the world with people too stupid to own certain types of firearms..  what with all those "fools" and such running around... good thing you have a smart government and nanny citizens to make sure you don't harm yourselves.

lazs

Offline Angus

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« Reply #228 on: June 29, 2007, 06:24:46 PM »
Flip the side.
Find me a nation low in crime and show me where an  increased arsenal will gradually lower crime rate of particularly the violent side.
The bottom line remains, - you are much more likely to be shot, murdered, robbed, raped and so forth, in the country of many-guns, than in petty OOO-rope.
These are the stats, not speculations.


p.s. As for suicide, it's very fast with a handgun. Don't even need a toe to pull the trigger.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline SaburoS

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« Reply #229 on: June 29, 2007, 08:14:40 PM »
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Originally posted by Angus
Snip~
The bottom line remains, - you are much more likely to be shot, murdered, robbed, raped and so forth, in the country of many-guns, than in petty OOO-rope.
These are the stats, not speculations. ~snip


Depends on who has the guns.
In this CASE , I'd wager that if the victims had firearms, there would be a lot less people killed.
I'd also wager that the victims would have loved to have something to fight back with right before their death.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline Angus

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« Reply #230 on: June 30, 2007, 05:11:14 AM »
Depends?
These are overall statistic. The difference is actually quite great.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #231 on: June 30, 2007, 08:56:45 AM »
angus... I can name one country where more handguns, concealed carry, decreased homicide and serious crime and that would be..  The USA.. in states that passed right to carry laws the homicide and serious crime rate went down.  

Soo.. I can name one where crime went down by adding guns with only one law..  it is still up to you to name a law that reduced serious crime and homicide.

you have been duped by your leaders..  or... you know better but think that your  fellow citizens are "fools" and fear them more than you fear your government.

I certainly would not like to live in a place like that.   If I did tho... I sure would be glad that the US was the only superpower and not soviet russia for instance.

lazs

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #232 on: June 30, 2007, 09:59:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
The bottom line remains, - you are much more likely to be shot, murdered, robbed, raped and so forth, in the country of many-guns


Not if the government does not take away the right of the citizens in that country to to own and carry.
Self defense is a really neat thing if you are the unlucky one to be in such an instance it is called for. Without it you are at the whim of your attacker.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #233 on: June 30, 2007, 10:15:41 AM »
Ahem. Read again. This was a simple factum. And your point is that trying to remove the guns would increase the distance, - which is something I pointed out that I did not have a solution for.

As for this rubbish here:

"Talk about your rubbish. Having trouble arming themselves my aching back. You know not of what you speak. Exactly what are you basing that little gem of a theory on? There are very, very few places around the globe that you cannot obtain gun more than easily.....unless of course you are a law abider."

I know of what I speak, and for myself it took a very short time getting guns for the sole reason of myself being in the books as a law abiding citizen. Thinking of my next gun now. Will be a rifle.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #234 on: June 30, 2007, 10:19:24 AM »
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Originally posted by Angus

I know of what I speak, and for myself it took a very short time getting guns for the sole reason of myself being in the books as a law abiding citizen. Thinking of my next gun now. Will be a rifle.


So........how many Colt or other brand pistols are you going to pick up while you are there?
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #235 on: June 30, 2007, 10:23:13 AM »
Cannot get a handgun, cannot get an assault rifle, no grenades and machine guns, however rifles and shotguns.

BTW, still have not found my housekey, but no sweat, the thugs around here are few and not armed :D
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Angus

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« Reply #236 on: June 30, 2007, 10:26:30 AM »
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Originally posted by Toad
I'd wager most people posting here from the US are as unlikely to be shot as you are Angus.

The big cities have the high homicide rates. The smaller cities and rural areas do not.


Wrong I'd say. The possibilities of getting shot up here are practically zero, while you do have posters on this forums that have been shot.

However, there are definately areas in the USA where you are less likely to be killed than in some areas in Europe, - or up here.


It's just the total that sucks.  Stays as a fact.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #237 on: June 30, 2007, 10:30:25 AM »
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Originally posted by Angus
Cannot get a handgun


Thank you kindly. :aok

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cannot get an assault rifle


How do you know that? Did you finish up the research without letting me in on it?
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Hap

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« Reply #238 on: June 30, 2007, 10:54:18 AM »
oops

Offline Charon

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« Reply #239 on: June 30, 2007, 11:34:42 AM »
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Wrong I'd say. The possibilities of getting shot up here are practically zero, while you do have posters on this forums that have been shot.


Who would that be? Personally I know 3 people who have died alcohol related deaths and not a single individual involved in firearm violence.

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It's just the total that sucks. Stays as a fact.


As I posted on page 4.

The reality in America is, if you are not involved in urban criminal activity your personal risk from firearm violence is very small. Just look at the statistics with an open eye.

5 per 100,000 -- not 5 per 100 or 5 per 1000 even. Would you feel any safer, realistically, if it was 2 per 100,000 or 1 per 100,000? Especially since, at least using Chicago PD info, AT LEAST 3 of those 5 are criminals killing criminals.

Risk by comparison x 100,000:

firearms - 5/2
Automobiles - 14
Tobacco - 650
Alcohol - 150
Heroin - 80 (fully banned, btw)
Cocaine - 4 (fully banned, btw)


And then there is Working for a living - 4. It's actually safer to be a criminal than to work for a living in the US


Now if you're an overly hysterical person then those odds might terrify you. Of course, you should be absolutely terrified about getting in a car on a Saturday night. Personally, I spent years in a huge city with a crime problem and was living there when Chicago got the homicide capital of America and never walked the streets in fear or heard a gunshot.

How much time have you spent in America, Angus? You seem to have a CSI Miami view of the country. I go through life day after day without firearm violence even registering in my thoughts.

There are parts of the world with a high incidence of shark attack. Australia and South Africa, for example. But my risk of being attacked by a shark is zero unless I swam off certain beaches at certain times of the year. As long as I stayed in the hotel pool, or walked the streets I would be fine. In fact, in probably 99 percent of Australia you are safe from shark attack. The thought of a shark attack wouldn't enter your mind anymore than you were in Iceland or Chicago.

My risk is slightly greater to get shot in America compared to getting eaten by a shark. And since it COULD potentially happen, regardless of how totally unlikely at about 2 in 100,000, it is nice to be able to defend myself if the need ever arose.

This guy lost the lottery, but turned the tables. And again, well over 99 percent of Americans will NEVER face anything even remotely like this in our population of 300,000,000: http://www.nbc6.net/news/13585506/detail.html?dl=headlineclick

BTW, where general violent crime is concerned the US is nothing special anymore and parts of Europe are catching up fast and surpassing us in some areas like robberies. Frankly I personally, with my demographics and lack of criminal involvement in street gangs and the drug trade, might be MORE at risk in Europe for a violent incident. I haven't played with the numbers, but with well over 80 percent of the shooters and victims of violent crime in the US being gang banger types killing each other (and not Joe or Jane average person with access to a gun)...

Here is another one of those exceedingly rare cases of home invasion robbery, and why they are so rare here compared to parts of Europe.
http://www.local6.com/news/13542239/detail.html


Charon
« Last Edit: June 30, 2007, 11:42:21 AM by Charon »