Colin Powell Joins AlQueda

[Squire]

In regards to the Gitmo thing, if I may.

Personally I didnt have a problem with the "unlawfull combatants" designation, thats what they are, and its been an issue with military forces since there were standing armies. Those that say it was an invented designation are full of crap. Armies have to deal with non-uniformed, non-recognised fighters, thats nothing new.

You have two basic categories, "guerrilas" (insurgents), and terrorists (A-Q et al). The former should be given some basic protections under military law, and dealt with by the military, the latter, first by the military, and then handed over to the courts for criminal hearings.  

As with Gitmo itself...it made sense to send them there as a "detainee camp" during the campaign, and I see no problem with it. Closing Gitmo doesnt really change anything, you just have to send them somewhere else after capture, so thats just window dressing, imho. You cant just say "here is your court date be sure to be there" and release them in Afghanistan or Iraq by the roadside.

...however, I think the US should have expidited the process once they were there. Ie, get the intel you need, then decide on what route to process them: Federal Custody and Trial, a Courts Martial, or Release (if deemed appropriate). The USA is a nation of laws, and it should be no different in this case, emotions aside, but get on with it, dont drag it out for years and years. If they have a date with a court (military or other), then get it done. I have no love for any of them either, but process them and move on.

I think thats partially the point Powell was making, and I understand the US Courts have agreed with some of the above. Essentially you "own the problem" once you decide to take them into custody. It can be a messy process, but thats just the way it is.

In any case, thats how I see some of it for what its worth.

[crockett]

Originally posted by Bodhi
I will leave you with this since you have no penchant for discourse other than shaded trolls....  

Is that really the best you can come up with? A picture from 9/11?

Humm so why aren't we trying to find bin Laden? What did Iraq have to do with 9/11? Why did we pull most of our troops out of Afghanistan so we could put them in a country that had nothing to do with 9/11?

Attacking Iraq after 9/11 is like attacking Canada because of what Timothy Mcveigh did in the Oklahoma bombing. That would make a lot of sense Eh?

Oh and btw...

If 9/11 "changed everything"  why is it so cool to support the people whom died with flag waving and bumper stickers. Yet no one including our govt gives a rats bellybutton about all those workers whom worked at ground zero.. Whom are now dieing right now due to health problems related to the air quality that was at GZ?

Guess supporting the rescue workers no longer is needed for anyones bumper stickers..

[Maverick]

Originally posted by rpm
Forgive me for taking so long to respond, I work a crazy schedule. As far as putting words in your mouth, I didn't realise I had. I was asking a question that you have'nt answered yet. Could it be that this is a case of trying to shoot the messenger than admit Powell is right? I sincerely hope that it's not.

Go back to my first post in the thread and read it please.

Note that in that post I did not take any stance on the subject of the article, just the manner in which you trolled it. Nothing more.

Your response to me implied that I had taken a stance on it or Mr. Powell's position. I had not posted any position on it. Further I will not presume to state what Mr. Powell knows or does not know. He does not confide in me and I certainly do not claim to read his mind.

Your thread title is both insulting to Mr. Powell as well as innacurate and is not supported by the article.

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by crockett
Attacking Iraq after 9/11 is like attacking Canada because of what Timothy Mcveigh did in the Oklahoma bombing. That would make a lot of sense Eh?

That comparison is very wrong and it continues to prove that people have no clue as to what is going on in Iraq.  Try not to be so naive as to believe that Iraq had nothing to do with AlQuaida.  That thought process is equivalent to sticking ones head in the sand.

But hey, keep on watching CNN, I am sure you will learn all you need to know.  Maybe even give Dan Rather a call, surely he can provide some facts.  

[crockett]

Originally posted by Squire
In regards to the Gitmo thing, if I may.

Personally I didnt have a problem with the "unlawfull combatants" designation, thats what they are, and its been an issue with military forces since there were standing armies. Those that say it was an invented designation are full of crap. Armies have to deal with non-uniformed, non-recognised fighters, thats nothing new.

You have two basic categories, "guerrilas" (insurgents), and terrorists (A-Q et al). The former should be given some basic protections under military law, and dealt with by the military, the latter, first by the military, and then handed over to the courts for criminal hearings.  

As with Gitmo itself...it made sense to send them there as a "detainee camp" during the campaign, and I see no problem with it. Closing Gitmo doesnt really change anything, you just have to send them somewhere else after capture, so thats just window dressing, imho. You cant just say "here is your court date be sure to be there" and release them in Afghanistan or Iraq by the roadside.

...however, I think the US should have expidited the process once they were there. Ie, get the intel you need, then decide on what route to process them: Federal Custody and Trial, a Courts Martial, or Release (if deemed appropriate). The USA is a nation of laws, and it should be no different in this case, emotions aside, but get on with it, dont drag it out for years and years. If they have a date with a court (military or other), then get it done. I have no love for any of them either, but process them and move on.

I think thats partially the point Powell was making, and I understand the US Courts have agreed with some of the above. Essentially you "own the problem" once you decide to take them into custody. It can be a messy process, but thats just the way it is.

In any case, thats how I see some of it for what its worth.

Exactly..

It's not about the fact we operate a prison camp.. That's a natural thing to do and having it out of the country that we are at war with, ensures that no attacks will take place on it. So it's not a totally bad thing.

The entire thing that's wrong with gitmo is the fact it is and was being used as a black hole so to speak. As well as the fact that all the basic rights under the Geneva convention were being ignored.

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by crockett
Oh and btw...

If 9/11 "changed everything"  why is it so cool to support the people whom died with flag waving and bumper stickers. Yet no one including our govt gives a rats bellybutton about all those workers whom worked at ground zero.. Whom are now dieing right now due to health problems related to the air quality that was at GZ?

Guess supporting the rescue workers no longer is needed for anyones bumper stickers..

Sorry missed your edit.

Personally I think that the people's families who died in the attacks on 9/11 did not deserve million dollar pay outs from the government.  The rescue workers families certainly did, as do all members of the police and other services who gave their lives to try and save others.  

As for health problems, I find it staggering to believe that the city and state of NewYork, and the federal government continue to deny that the health problems many rescuers face now are a direct result of exposure to the aftermath of the buildings collapse.  Even though that attitude is slowly changing, it is still wrong.  

As for a bumper sticker supporting anything, well, if you really believe that the $2.00 goes to where it is needed, then I have a really nice piece of land near Ocala to sell you.  

[crockett]

Originally posted by Bodhi
That comparison is very wrong and it continues to prove that people have no clue as to what is going on in Iraq.  Try not to be so naive as to believe that Iraq had nothing to do with AlQuaida.  That thought process is equivalent to sticking ones head in the sand.

But hey, keep on watching CNN, I am sure you will learn all you need to know.  Maybe even give Dan Rather a call, surely he can provide some facts.  

Funny.. I guess you missed the whole.. 9/11 commission thing..

here.. educate yourself because you seem to need it..

http://www.9-11commission.gov/

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by crockett
Funny.. I guess you missed the whole.. 9/11 commission thing..

here.. educate yourself because you seem to need it..

http://www.9-11commission.gov/

I do not believe most of that comission's finding to be accurate.  I think it is filled without right erroneus information and assumptions.  

But, as usual, you need to stoop to personal attacks to support your beliefs.  Well, I guess you can join Straffo....

[crockett]

Originally posted by Bodhi
I do not believe most of that comission's finding to be accurate.  I think it is filled without right erroneus information and assumptions.  

But, as usual, you need to stoop to personal attacks to support your beliefs.  Well, I guess you can join Straffo....

Telling you to educate yourself is a "personal attack"?  That's a new one..

Of course you calling me a " shaded troll" wouldn't be a personal attack right.

In this topic you also called L'EMMERDEUR a shade.. seems like a personal attack to me.

Maybe you shouldn't look in the mirror Bodhi.. it might look back..

[rpm]

Originally posted by Squire
In regards to the Gitmo thing, if I may.

Personally I didnt have a problem with the "unlawfull combatants" designation, thats what they are, and its been an issue with military forces since there were standing armies. Those that say it was an invented designation are full of crap. Armies have to deal with non-uniformed, non-recognised fighters, thats nothing new.

You have two basic categories, "guerrilas" (insurgents), and terrorists (A-Q et al). The former should be given some basic protections under military law, and dealt with by the military, the latter, first by the military, and then handed over to the courts for criminal hearings.  

As with Gitmo itself...it made sense to send them there as a "detainee camp" during the campaign, and I see no problem with it. Closing Gitmo doesnt really change anything, you just have to send them somewhere else after capture, so thats just window dressing, imho. You cant just say "here is your court date be sure to be there" and release them in Afghanistan or Iraq by the roadside.

...however, I think the US should have expidited the process once they were there. Ie, get the intel you need, then decide on what route to process them: Federal Custody and Trial, a Courts Martial, or Release (if deemed appropriate). The USA is a nation of laws, and it should be no different in this case, emotions aside, but get on with it, dont drag it out for years and years. If they have a date with a court (military or other), then get it done. I have no love for any of them either, but process them and move on.

I think thats partially the point Powell was making, and I understand the US Courts have agreed with some of the above. Essentially you "own the problem" once you decide to take them into custody. It can be a messy process, but thats just the way it is.

In any case, thats how I see some of it for what its worth.

Well said, good post.

Mav, the Bushboiz have set up the "if you're not with us, you're against us" strategy. Since Powell is obviously not towing the party line in this case he must be against us according to that strategy and that's what the title is about.

I expect a ton of backpeddling, blameshifting and a massive spin cycle from the Bushboiz. There's no way a widely respected, intelligent man like Powell could have come to this conclusion and still be an American icon from the Bushboiz POV. He has to be an Amerihater, that or Bush is WRONG and that's something the Bushboiz could never admit because it would mean they are wrong, too.

[straffo]

My GOD (again )

A republitroll condemned me to the ignore list.

It's not really surprising as ignorance is something republibots seems to master.

[leitwolf]

what Squire said.

In closing, the concepts of due process, Bill of Rights and Human Rights Declaration should mean something to a conservative.

Even if it's the wrong people who benefit from them, they are not optional.

[straffo]

I would like to agree with you leitwolf but I've repeatedly seen otherwise here.

[Yeager]

Even if it's the wrong people who benefit from them, they are not optional.
====
This is an interesting opinion.  Personaly, I dont see the point in bringing foreign islamic terrorists into the United States to give them the same rights that I have.  

Maybe you have a better angle on this thing.  Why should I see it your way?

[rpm]

Originally posted by Yeager
Personaly, I dont see the point in bringing foreign islamic terrorists into the United States to give them the same rights that I have.

Very good point Yeager.