which branch of governement is cheney in again?

[T0J0]

I am voting Dem in 2008 hoping to prove a point, with a potential two years thru 2010 to get pretty much anything done with total control of house, senate and oval office the economy will tank, taxes will go to 50%+, and nothing will get done. And it will all be blamed on Bush and Cheney.... But more important, the sheep will believe it...
You can whine about Cheney and Bush and alot of it has merit but they have not waivered on national security even with the kicking and screaming of the left and right, even realizing that border security has been an issue they inherited Bush even against party line has pushed for a resolution eroding his base of support, he is doing what he thinks is right not what the base wants.
 
Bush saved us from Gore, that will be his legacy.... Amazing that nobody is willing to admit that we dodged a bullet in the 2000 election with gore loosing...I guess its an inconvienant truth...

Fairness doctrine..... Affirmitive action for left leaning talk radio hosts... What a concept...

[AKIron]

Tojo, among other irreversible acts the Democrats will grant amnesty to illegal aliens. Proving a point by committing suicide just isn't the answer.

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by T0J0
I am voting Dem in 2008 hoping to prove a point, with a potential two years thru 2010 to get pretty much anything done with total control of house, senate and oval office the economy will tank, taxes will go to 50%+, and nothing will get done. And it will all be blamed on Bush and Cheney.... But more important, the sheep will believe it...
You can whine about Cheney and Bush and alot of it has merit but they have not waivered on national security even with the kicking and screaming of the left and right, even realizing that border security has been an issue they inherited Bush even against party line has pushed for a resolution eroding his base of support, he is doing what he thinks is right not what the base wants.
 
Bush saved us from Gore, that will be his legacy.... Amazing that nobody is willing to admit that we dodged a bullet in the 2000 election with gore loosing...I guess its an inconvienant truth...

Fairness doctrine..... Affirmitive action for left leaning talk radio hosts... What a concept...

I wonder, would you even give credit where credit was due in the end, or have you been resigned to let your right leaning view to it's end?  

This administration has GOTTEN NOTHING DONE.  Nothing... zip zero zilch.

National Security?  What a joke.  You are no safer today than you were 8 years ago.  Ports are wide open...one percent of containers even get a cursory look.  In federal tests, on average, you can get through security 40 percent of the time with a loaded gun.  We put up a 700 mile wall on an american border...that's 2100 miles long. (not even counting Canada)  And Bush pushed that resolution, I imagine you're talkin about immigration, because his "base" only makes up 18 to 20 percent of the total number of americans.  He attempted to do something the other 82 percent would approve... and looked stupid in the end, on both ends.

He cries about goverment spending... balancing the budget... The only administration that balanced the books in the past 30 years was a democrat.  If you or I ran our homes like this, we would be on the street.

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by AKIron
Tojo, among other irreversible acts the Democrats will grant amnesty to illegal aliens. Proving a point by committing suicide just isn't the answer.

It really scares me that so many people have a superiority complex.  Most immigrants come here, legally or illegally, for a better life.  Which, our bill of rights decrees, you can get here.  Why is that so bad?  We, every single one of us, are immigrants.  Get over your superiority complex..what happened to "give me your poor, your tired, your hungry."  Most immigrants I've worked around, work 2 to 3 times what any "american" considers normal.  Hard work, a new start, and Amnesty..  Isn't that the American way?  

Here is where someone will insert.. "but they just come here to live on welfare.." which is a gross over reach and is racist to boot.  Plenty of our born here citizenry living in certain geographical areas, take advantage of our welfare system.  There will always be those that do, yet using it as a vice to put immigrants in...is wrong.

I ask you this... would you wait the average 3-5 years it takes right now to get citizenship in your third world craphole, with no way to support your family... or would you try to enter illegally?  The people you want in the country...the strong willed, will enter for the good of their family and their being... just as you would if positions were reversed.

[john9001]

Originally posted by MORAY37
National Security?  What a joke.  You are no safer today than you were 8 years ago.

Hillary Clinton said we are safer now than we were five years ago. She must be a right wing gunnut"neocon".

i was born in the USA, i am not a immigrant.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by MORAY37
It really scares me that so many people have a superiority complex.  Most immigrants come here, legally or illegally, for a better life.  Which, our bill of rights decrees, you can get here.  Why is that so bad?  We, every single one of us, are immigrants.  Get over your superiority complex..what happened to "give me your poor, your tired, your hungry."  Most immigrants I've worked around, work 2 to 3 times what any "american" considers normal.  Hard work, a new start, and Amnesty..  Isn't that the American way?  

Here is where someone will insert.. "but they just come here to live on welfare.." which is a gross over reach and is racist to boot.  Plenty of our born here citizenry living in certain geographical areas, take advantage of our welfare system.  There will always be those that do, yet using it as a vice to put immigrants in...is wrong.

I ask you this... would you wait the average 3-5 years it takes right now to get citizenship in your third world craphole, with no way to support your family... or would you try to enter illegally?  The people you want in the country...the strong willed, will enter for the good of their family and their being... just as you would if positions were reversed.

I don't fault the Mexicans and other Central Americans whose governments are so corrupt these people can't work. I do fault our government for selling us out for cheap labor and votes. We have laws that are being ignored. If we can be selective in which laws we enforce then why should anyone obey a law they don't particularly like? Like paying income tax for example.

[MORAY37]

I agree with you on that one iron.  Our enforcement is a severe issue.  Laws are not, or should not be, circumventable by anyone, of upper or lower class. Too often, money, either the abundance of it or lack of it, determines what laws will be followed.

[Seagoon]

Hello Moray,

Originally posted by MORAY37
Here is where someone will insert.. "but they just come here to live on welfare.." which is a gross over reach and is racist to boot.  Plenty of our born here citizenry living in certain geographical areas, take advantage of our welfare system.  There will always be those that do, yet using it as a vice to put immigrants in...is wrong.

I don't think that anyone reasonable believes that every illegal or legal immigrant from the the third world is coming here to live off the welfare system. The evidence that immigrants are currently doing much of our manual labor and low level service jobs is all around us. They pick our food, build our houses, clean our buildings, and so on. However, what is undeniable is that the massive influx of illegal immigrants is breaking our social services net. Hospital emergency rooms throughout the country are closing, and not because they are "racists," but because they cannot remain solvent and comply with the legal obligation to provide medical care to anyone who asks for it, including a huge influx of illegals who do not pay.

Additionally, it is not the immigrant laborers who are funding the services they receive. Many if not most of them pay no taxes, and their jobs are generally below the taxable level in any event. Its American taxpayers (generally families in the middle and upper classes) who fund the system, and so we have a system in which indigenous American families are essentially funding the services used by illegal immigrants via taxation. Aside from the question of whether it is fair for me to pay for services being disproportionately used by families in the United States illegally (and no one asks that question - as far as the politicos are concerned the American taxpayer apparently exists to put up and shut up), the fact is that the social services system cannot support the increasing burdens being placed upon it.

So you have three options, a massive hike in the American taxpayers financial tax burden, an end to the welfare state, or getting serious about limiting illegal immigration. The system as it stands is dangerously imbalanced, and getting worse all the time.

(BTW -  I am a legal immigrant to the USA, and I do not feel "superior" in any sense to the illegal immigrants. There, but for the grace of God, go I.)

- SEAGOON

[Elfie]

Most immigrants come here, legally or illegally, for a better life. Which, our bill of rights decrees, you can get here. Why is that so bad?

Absolutely nothing.....as long as they come here legally.

If they come here illegally not only are they mere criminals, but they also show a lack of respect for our laws and our country.

My grandparents on both sides came here legally.

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by john9001
Hillary Clinton said we are safer now than we were five years ago. She must be a right wing gunnut"neocon".

i was born in the USA, i am not a immigrant.

Clinton is wrong.... and she isn't a right wing insert whatever name you want here....she's just wrong.

[Mace2004]

I just wanted to point out how one side redefines the argument in order to discredit the motives of the opposition.  In this case, being against illegal aliens is equated to being "anti-immigration" and racist.  You must be a really, really bad person to be "anti-immigration" because, not only are you disrespecting those that came here legally and are productive members of the American society, you're also a racist.  Of course, the real argument is anti-illegal immigration.  Same old stuff, hyperbole rather than reason.

[Mace2004]

Those of you that argue the US isn't safer are not paying much attention.  There have been dozens of plots which have been stopped and not a single terrorist attack within the US since 9/11 (discounting the Anthrax attacks, nobody really knows who/what was behind that).  UBL, Zawahiri, Zarchai and others have called for further attacks yet none have been successful.  Hummmm, I wonder why?  Could it be that we're doing a better job at counter-terroism than before 9/11?  Of course, it would defeat the argument if the facts of the past 7 years are mentioned....so they're not.

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by MORAY37
It really scares me that so many people have a superiority complex.  Most immigrants come here, legally or illegally, for a better life.  Which, our bill of rights decrees, you can get here.  Why is that so bad?  

Come visit me in North Hollywood and wake up to "day laborers" voiding their bowels on the sidewalk for about a year... There are enough street urchins around here already, I don't see the need to import bums from Mexico.

After a good sidewalk poop, its nap time in the shadow on an LAPD car.. while finishing a beer.


Also consider you're more likely to be slaughtered by an illegal alien while minding your own business, than a "terrorist":

Alfredo Ramos: illegal as a home made $4, was convicted of DUI in 2006.. wasn't deported, then on March 30, 2007 he slaughtered 2 teenage girls while drunk again.

Carlos Prieto: Blew a red light killing 50% of a family of 6 on Christmas Eve 2006.

Eduardo Raul Morales-Soriano: killed Marine Cpl. Brian Mathews, 21, and his date, Jennifer Bower, 24, on Thanksgiving night, 2006.

Guillermo Paniagua: 4 DUI arrests & zero deportations, got drunk again and killed Needville Texas Independent School District Chief of Police Ernie Mendoza on Jan. 19, 2007.

Gustavo Reyes Garcia: 14 previous arrests, never deported, slammed his SUV into Sean and Donna Wilson, killing them both.

Hector Velazquez-Nava: was driving with a BAC 3x times the legal limit, drove his SUV head on into a car slaughtering film director Bob Clark and his 22-year-old son.

The list goes on...
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55965

I spent 6 years as a cop in East LA watching illegals get away with all kinds of outlandish criminal activity, there are a-lot more hardcore stone cold criminals crossing the border than people realize; murders, rapists, child molesters, drunk drivers, gangsters... it was sickening to watch... but republicans & democrats apparently consider a few thousand dead / victimized US citizens per year as 'acceptable losses'.

Maybe kicking out 12 million people is unrealistic, but giving criminal aliens the boot on their 1st offense would be a good start.

[T0J0]

Originally posted by AKIron
Tojo, among other irreversible acts the Democrats will grant amnesty to illegal aliens. Proving a point by committing suicide just isn't the answer.

I also believe that we need a Dem in the oval office just to finish the job in Iraq no matter what the outcome win or loss...  History of the Cuban boatlift being what it was, was amnesty, and what it did to Miami and nearby areas is a work of beauty, Carters legacy or how I destroyed a city with the signing of a documnet, easy for Carter to do when he would turn his back on South Florida as it was being torn apart by Cuban organized crime...
  How does Cuban Amnesty mimic the current trend in gifts to lawbreakers crossing the border illegally..
Big business wants illegal workers, the american public doesnt...Its obvious whom controls society, Its a B movie with a bad ending...

TJ