Author Topic: Japanese debate on Nuclear Bombings  (Read 6016 times)

Offline FrodeMk3

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Japanese debate on Nuclear Bombings
« Reply #105 on: July 07, 2007, 11:56:52 AM »
But Rolex, This thread wasn't about the war in Europe. It was about the U.S. ending it by using Atomic weapons on Japan. Boroda started this whole thing by implying that the USSR did the Grunt work of beating the Japanese in the Pacific, which NO history book refutes as being the work of the U.S., Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, India, and actually China (They were, by and large, the forefront of the battle on the asian landmass.) Adding to that, insulting the contribution made by the elders and ancestors' of many of the posters' in here, (including myself- My late uncle Garland was in Carlson's Raiders, seeing action on Guadalcanal and the Solomons), By saying the Island hopping war was insignificant, netted him the treatment he deserved.

I never jumped in when Boroda started spewing all of that drivel because after his first two posts, I suspected a troll or a hijack of the thread. Oppurtunistic land grabbing, in the same ilk as Poland, Hungary, East Germany, etc. at the end of the Second world war, doesn't give him proper claim to say that was the action that single-handedly defeated the Japanese.

(P.S... To any of the poster's whose nation made a contribution to the winning of the pacific war, and that I didn't name, I'm deeply sorry. I was pretty mad and typing fast. :furious )

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #106 on: July 07, 2007, 12:05:51 PM »
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Only on the eastern front did Einsatzgruppen forces follow combat troops to kill civilians.


It happened in Poland as well.
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Offline Rolex

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« Reply #107 on: July 07, 2007, 12:07:21 PM »
Did you think he was being serious? I didn't. I thought he was making a joke about the Pacific War.

The myths and legends stuff applies to that topic also... ;)

Does anyone see any myths in any of the posts so far about Japan? Or, is everything posted based on facts?

Offline FrodeMk3

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« Reply #108 on: July 07, 2007, 12:10:19 PM »
He pursued it awfully far, for a mere joke. And joking in that context, isn't funny.

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #109 on: July 07, 2007, 12:23:03 PM »
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Did you think he was being serious? I didn't. I thought he was making a joke about the Pacific War.


I am convinced he actually believes what he writes here.

It is just as insulting for him to say the USSR did the grunt work in beating Japan as it would be for me to say the USA did the grunt work in beating Germany. I don't think anyone here is saying the USA or any of the other Western Allies did the grunt work in beating Germany.
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Offline Rolex

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« Reply #110 on: July 07, 2007, 12:30:09 PM »
His [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] tags and "I love provocations" didn't register with you?

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #111 on: July 07, 2007, 12:37:42 PM »
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Originally posted by Rolex
His [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] tags and "I love provocations" didn't register with you?


That was one post in this thread. That post I realized he was joking. That post is the exception rather than the rule.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
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Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #112 on: July 07, 2007, 02:55:23 PM »
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Originally posted by Rolex
Did you think he was being serious? I didn't. I thought he was making a joke about the Pacific War.
Sorry, I cannot "joke about War".   Pissing on Veterans is something I don't do and I never even served.    He's delusional.
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Offline C(Sea)Bass

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Japanese debate on Nuclear Bombings
« Reply #113 on: July 08, 2007, 01:20:23 AM »
what difference does it make who won the war. the important thing to remember is that so many people of many different nations fought and sometimes died to stop the axis nations. whinig about who won or not is belittling the fact that both russian and allied soldiers died, and it needs to be rembered that no death on either side is more or less important than death on anyother.

Offline FrodeMk3

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« Reply #114 on: July 08, 2007, 02:25:46 AM »
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what difference does it make who won the war. the important thing to remember is that so many people of many different nations fought and sometimes died to stop the axis nations. whinig about who won or not is belittling the fact that both russian and allied soldiers died, and it needs to be rembered that no death on either side is more or less important than death on anyother.


Where there is some truth in that statement, You also have to remember that right after WWII, our ally quickly turned into our enemy. It was a close run thing, containing the USSR after the end of the war; They got quite a few countries as it were.

When someone get's up and state's something so out of line with what happened, as Boroda did, It's best to remind them of what did go down, that it does not cheapen the sacrifices of the Military forces and people of the Allied powers, that did in fact destroy Japan in a very hard-fought campaign, from 1941 (Or '37, if you consider the time the Chinese had been fighting) till' the Bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Plain and simply, the War against Japan WAS NOT won by any part of the Red Army, Navy, or Air Force. It was not IL-2's that bottomed the core of the IJN fleet at Midway. It was not a Guards' tank division that stormed ashore at Guadalcanal, Peleliu, Tarawa, Bouganville, Saipan, Luzon, Iwo Jima, or Okinawa. Commisars' did not wave tank riders forward in Burma, or Malaya, or over the Owen Stanley mountains in New Guinea. The Western Allies, with their ANZAC, Indian, and other Commonwealth forces, and with the Chinese Nationalists' fighting the Japanese on their own soil, Spilt that blood, and in my mind, alone claim the Thanks, and gratitude, that VJ day brought.

Offline Rino

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« Reply #115 on: July 09, 2007, 06:03:12 AM »
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
If the commies had got off their butts and attacked Japan, there would have been more troops for a western second front offensive. :D

Also remember the west was not as dumb as the commies. They attacked where the least amount of casualties would occure.


     If they had attacked Japan, then they would'nt have had those Siberian
troops to encircle von Paulus at Stalingrad at the end of 1942.   Japan was
still trying to recover from the beating at Midway, so they sure weren't
gonna start anything.  Especially after the lesson they got from Zhukov
in the 30s.
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Offline straffo

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« Reply #116 on: July 09, 2007, 06:30:29 AM »
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Originally posted by Elfie
It happened in Poland as well.


Poland is in east too.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #117 on: July 09, 2007, 12:56:15 PM »
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Where there is some truth in that statement, You also have to remember that right after WWII, our ally quickly turned into our enemy. It was a close run thing, containing the USSR after the end of the war; They got quite a few countries as it were.


Well, Cold War and becoming "enemies" was a decision of the "blue" side. Elections in West Germany and South Korea were the final decision that started "cold war", followed by Berlin crisis that also was Western fault.

Quote
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
When someone get's up and state's something so out of line with what happened, as Boroda did, It's best to remind them of what did go down, that it does not cheapen the sacrifices of the Military forces and people of the Allied powers, that did in fact destroy Japan in a very hard-fought campaign, from 1941 (Or '37, if you consider the time the Chinese had been fighting) till' the Bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.


Soviet volunteers fought in China too, looks like you never see any Soviet actions on your side. Lake Hasan and Khalkhin Gol in 1938 and 38 also are forgotten... The scale of the Khalkhin-Gol conflict can be compared to Western activities in the Pacific in 41-45.

Quote
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Plain and simply, the War against Japan WAS NOT won by any part of the Red Army, Navy, or Air Force. It was not IL-2's that bottomed the core of the IJN fleet at Midway. It was not a Guards' tank division that stormed ashore at Guadalcanal, Peleliu, Tarawa, Bouganville, Saipan, Luzon, Iwo Jima, or Okinawa. Commisars' did not wave tank riders forward in Burma, or Malaya, or over the Owen Stanley mountains in New Guinea. The Western Allies, with their ANZAC, Indian, and other Commonwealth forces, and with the Chinese Nationalists' fighting the Japanese on their own soil, Spilt that blood, and in my mind, alone claim the Thanks, and gratitude, that VJ day brought.


I have to disagree. Look, I don't try to deny Western efforts in the Pacific, but the Soviet attack in 1945 did play an important role in VJ. After continental army was defeated - it could be quite easy to starve Japan, so nuclear bombings were, well, unnessessary. Please notice that I don't share Irwing's point of view on bombings of Dresden, I think it was a legitimate target, as well as Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Do you seriously think that USSR had to send it's soldiers to die for foreign interests in Asia? We got our spine almost broken in Europe, another war was too much for the country that lost every sixth person (and Belorussia lost as much as every third).

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #118 on: July 09, 2007, 01:24:41 PM »
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Originally posted by straffo
Poland is in east too.


When folks talk about the Eastern Front in WWII, they generally mean the fighting between Soviet and German forces.
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Offline Boroda

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« Reply #119 on: July 09, 2007, 01:32:58 PM »
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Originally posted by Elfie
When folks talk about the Eastern Front in WWII, they generally mean the fighting between Soviet and German forces.


Polish troops were fighting shoulder to shoulder with Red Army. Wojsko Polsko lost about 80000 men in Berlin operation... Another fact that you guys usually forget.