Japanese debate on Nuclear Bombings

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Boroda
I have to disagree. Look, I don't try to deny Western efforts in the Pacific, but the Soviet attack in 1945 did play an important role in VJ. After continental army was defeated - it could be quite easy to starve Japan, so nuclear bombings were, well, unnessessary. Please notice that I don't share Irwing's point of view on bombings of Dresden, I think it was a legitimate target, as well as Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Do you seriously think that USSR had to send it's soldiers to die for foreign interests in Asia? We got our spine almost broken in Europe, another war was too much for the country that lost every sixth person (and Belorussia lost as much as every third).

Your first paragraph indidcates you contributed.    The second rescinds that fact.    Which is it?

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
Your first paragraph indidcates you contributed.    The second rescinds that fact.    Which is it?

I meant that we couldn't afford a war on two fronts. Strategic maneuvering was a little bit difficult over one railway line 9000+km long. Quarter the Globe. In 1904 the Trans-Siberian railway was not complete, and it doomed Russian Manchurian army. Anyway Russian Empire built up a half-million group of troops by early 1905. USSR was interested in keeping peace on it's Eastern borders.

BTW did you ever think what could happen if Red Army started a counter-offensive at Moscow one day earlier? Hint: Soviet offensive began on Dec 6th 1941...

[Laurie]

Originally posted by Boroda


so nuclear bombings were, well, unnessessary.

Estimates of Casualties   Hiroshima  Nagasaki  
Pre-raid population  255,000  195,000  
Dead  66,000  39,000  
Injured  69,000  25,000  
Total Casualties  135,000  64,000  

as opposed to the predicted 500,000 U.S. casualties of a land invasion.

I know it may sound cruel to just put human life in numbers and as a disposable sum, but this was war and if you look the estimated casualties of the bomb is around 200,000. Where as those of a land born invasion were that of 500,000 U.S. casualties let alone the amount of japanese ones.

So after seeing these numbers and figures borado, do you really still stick to your statement?

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Boroda
I meant that we couldn't afford a war on two fronts. Strategic maneuvering was a little bit difficult over one railway line 9000+km long. Quarter the Globe.
 

Gee Boroda, the western Allies fought on several fronts (CBI, SEP, Pac, ETO, MTO).

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Boroda
I meant that we couldn't afford a war on two fronts. Strategic maneuvering was a little bit difficult over one railway line 9000+km long. Quarter the Globe. In 1904 the Trans-Siberian railway was not complete, and it doomed Russian Manchurian army. Anyway Russian Empire built up a half-million group of troops by early 1905. USSR was interested in keeping peace on it's Eastern borders.

BTW did you ever think what could happen if Red Army started a counter-offensive at Moscow one day earlier? Hint: Soviet offensive began on Dec 6th 1941...

I see, so the USSR did nada in the PTO.   Thanks for the clarification.   The US managed just fine with a "multi-front" effort.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
I see, so the USSR did nada in the PTO.   Thanks for the clarification.   The US managed just fine with a "multi-front" effort.

"No-front" effort. You guys didn't have your country invaded. JFYI: Russia got invaded about every 50 years in the last 500 years.

Nuclear bombing was indeed unnessessary, I have to repeat: Japan could be starved to death after continental army was crushed and allied navy sieged the Home Islands. No use comparing 500000 casualities 90% of whom were supposed to be Soviet soldiers.

[68ROX]

Originally posted by Boroda
Nuclear bombing was indeed unnessessary, I have to repeat: Japan could be starved to death after continental army was crushed and allied navy sieged the Home Islands.  

Well said, Komrade Boroda!

It is FAR more humaine to isolate a population and starve them to death (i.e. Leningrad) than to actually fight them directly...THAT way, you get all of those additional indiscriminant civilian casualties over a FAR more reaching area than a couple of A-Bombs could do.  Well done!

But you are also assuming that the allied navy would actually step in and bother to actually DO anything, after all, why not just stand idly by and let the USSR do it FOR them?

GREAT post anyway, Komrade Boroda!

Long Live the ideals of Komrade Lenin!

Long Live the USSR!

(Theme To The Internationale in background)


68ROX

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Boroda
"No-front" effort. You guys didn't have your country invaded. JFYI: Russia got invaded about every 50 years in the last 500 years.

Nuclear bombing was indeed unnessessary, I have to repeat: Japan could be starved to death after continental army was crushed and allied navy sieged the Home Islands. No use comparing 500000 casualities 90% of whom were supposed to be Soviet soldiers.

Russia has always been "about killing" Boroda.    History cannot cover up the numbers as you are trying.    

You really think 90% of the casualties would have been "Russian".  

I'm through with this.    Later.

[Gh0stFT]

Originally posted by Laurie
Estimates of Casualties   Hiroshima  Nagasaki  
Pre-raid population  255,000  195,000  
Dead  66,000  39,000  
Injured  69,000  25,000  
Total Casualties  135,000  64,000  

as opposed to the predicted 500,000 U.S. casualties of a land invasion.

I know it may sound cruel to just put human life in numbers and as a disposable sum, but this was war and if you look the estimated casualties of the bomb is around 200,000. Where as those of a land born invasion were that of 500,000 U.S. casualties let alone the amount of japanese ones.

So after seeing these numbers and figures borado, do you really still stick to your statement?

seeing it with todays eyes, where an army (especialy the US) try to protect the civilian casualties (colateral damage)
at all cost,
i do see Boroda have a point.

Soldiers are there to fight but not kill civillians.

[68ROX]

Originally posted by Boroda
"No-front" effort. You guys didn't have your country invaded. JFYI: Russia got invaded about every 50 years in the last 500 years."



Wow......

You'd think somebody there would LEARN something from that by now, now HUH?  Wouldn't ya think?  After 500 YEARS?

Do Russians have Rednecks too?

Borodo.....HERE'S YOUR SIGN.

BTW:  Do you ACTUALLY PLAY AH, or is it just your free online "The USSR WON WWII Single-Handedly SOAPBOX?

68ROX

[Kermit de frog]

Didn't the US get invaded by the Japs too?

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Didn't the US get invaded by the Japs too?

Shhh, "a covert operation led by Mr. Black, crossed the Pacific and stole a Zeke from the Production Line."    The Aleutians Campaign was merely a "smokescreen".  

[Elfie]

Nuclear bombing was indeed unnessessary, I have to repeat: Japan could be starved to death after continental army was crushed and allied navy sieged the Home Islands. No use comparing 500000 casualities 90% of whom were supposed to be Soviet soldiers.

The Japanese Navy had already been beaten. What little Navy was left would not have stopped a naval blockade of the home islands. Defeating the Kwangtung Army wasn't necessary for a naval blockade to happen. How would the Kwangtung Army have stopped an Allied naval blockade?

IF the Allies had opted for a naval blockade the Japanese would have just kept growing their crops. Starve them out? Very unlikely.

The Japanese needed raw materials shipped in for their industrial complex to build war materials because Japan has virtually no raw materials of her own.

You are grasping at straws now.

*edit* AFAIK the USSR wasn't figured into the estimated casualty figures for an invasion of the home islands so your *90% of whom were supposed to be Soviet soldiers* is pure bunk.

[Squire]

"Japanese continental army was defeated by USSR in 2 weeks, [sarcasm] while you guys spent three years crawling upon some useless god-forgotten islands. [/sarcasm] Try to find Hirohito's adress to the nation that was played on the radio on Aug 15th 1945."

Geezus H Christ, you never learn do you?

Ya, the Japanese were defeated by the Soviets in the last 2 weeks of the war, righto...

I guess their air force and navy being destroyed prior to that, and having their cities and industries bombed to craters, and the entire island in the grips of a USN Submarine blockade was just a feint huh?

Go drink some more, "Soviet Boy".

[straffo]

Originally posted by Boroda
"No-front" effort. You guys didn't have your country invaded. JFYI: Russia got invaded about every 50 years in the last 500 years.

2007-500 = 1507

check for existence of Russia failed