Don't get me wrong, I like the concept of fair play

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Renotrigger
I understand it's a game but I thought it was a war simulation, you know attack the enemy take bases. "SIMULATION" I mean they got everything almost perfect with the planes and damage and GVs and all but the ENY is frustating. most people don't leave at the end of the map but when the ENY get to outrages. You have one team able to fly anything and 2 other teams. only able to fly limit selections. what is fair in that. That is why I said start a poll and see what everyone thinks. Than decide if there should be ENY restrictions.

Pretend that even though you have a huge army and air force, your supplies just ran out and you have to use old planes.

- oldman

[Renotrigger]

Good answer Oldman731, ty for putting it in perspective.

[2Slow]

Eny is for the whiners who don't want to organize and resist the enemy.  Remember, the best defense is a good offense.

Military simulation requires some application of military principles.

If all one wanted was a first person WWII air combat shooter game then one could go to the dueling arena.

When I find my side out numbered and getting conquered I look upon it as a target rich environment.  Knowing I cannot turn the tide I will instead try to fly smart and make someones day.

If you enjoy being "squad free" and having no allegiance to a chess piece then please enjoy your choice.  However, don't whine we some of us take it to the next level and organize our efforts.

If it offends you and you do not enjoy it, then go back to your WII, X-Box, or other game console and leave us simulators alone.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Renotrigger
I understand it's a game but I thought it was a war simulation, you know attack the enemy take bases

It is a game first and foremost.  As a game, it has to try to keep it playable for all the subscribers, not just the side with massive numbers.

You may not like it, but there it is.

[Ghastly]

It is a game first and foremost. As a game, it has to try to keep it playable for all the subscribers, not just the side with massive numbers.

I couldn't agree more - the problem is that ENY as currently implemented ( or so it appears to me) performs only a token amount of leveling, and in fact worsens the situation a lot of the time, because it's a "shotgun" approach when what's needed is a scalpel.  With all the issues surrounding it, I can't help but feel that in many instances it's the bathwater that drowns the baby.

What I would do if it were my game and the goal were to force a more level playing field across the map is apply ENY calculations to a circle around each field - or at least use the "sector tallies" that are already calculated.    I've diagrammed it so it's more easily communicated. The larger squares around each field show the 9 squares used to calculate the ENY for the field that's enclosed in the same same color box, except that the yellow square around A15 designates the larger area examined to determine whether to ever calculate ENY for that field.  Imagine the scenario described below:

Total Players in the Arena -Rooks 104, Bishops 70, Knights 85.  
Total players in NE corner ... Rooks 14 - Bishops 29



If we were to apply the current "overall ENY" calculation, it wouldn't have any effect, or only marginal - and what's more, against the guys who are already outnumbered in the area of the map shown. But if we were to apply a "9 square ENY calculation", we'd see each base shown as being affected so:

A9 14 Rook-29 Bishop (Red Square) Harsh ENY on Bishops
A10 6R-9B (Blue Square) Less Harsh ENY on Bishops
C13 1R-7B (Purple) No ENY, (numbers below thresholds)
A10 0R-0B (White) No ENY
15- N/A No enemy base w/in this sector or 2 on either side, No ENY calc at all.

What does this do?  First of all, when a few more Rooks sign into the game, the few defenders up here aren't further hampered by suddenly being smacked with ENY when the majority of new guys signing in go join the horde overrunning the Knights elsewhere on the map. Instead of bailing on the defense and going to join the horde too, it breathes new life into this corner of the map - the new guys joining the game can come up here and fight with an ENY advantage, or go horde up elsewhere and suffer an ENY penalty.

Secondly, it spreads the fight out.  Players are going to be taking off from A9 (because it's close), A10 (because they can get a little better plane), A11 (get any plane) , and C13 (get any CV based plane no problem) .  This means that theres no longer a horde, since it's been broken up by the game mechanics, and the defenders get a chance to fight against locally diminished odds.  

Thirdly, it means that somewhere on the map a squadron can always get their ride, they just have to "pay" with implementing some fuel management and longer flight time.  There is also some incentive in general to fly further distances at reduced throttles, which adds an element to the game that's currently largely missing.

Just my thoughts, anyway.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Widewing
See if this computes: Sod off.

You offered a challenge, I previously specified the terms and then repeated the terms 3 times, you didn't show. Simple...

I'll wager that you don't show again tonight too. Nonetheless, I'll be in the TA doing my job, but not expecting much from you because you seem to lack the requisite hair on your backside.

Too bad you didn't show up last night. Bearkats showed up for some duels, and DadRabit joined us too. Everyone had fun. No egos, no smack talking, just a good time.

My regards,

Widewing

You will wager that I want show after I told you repeatedly I wouldn't???? Sounds like the way you guys fly.  High and safe

[dedalos]

Originally posted by DadRabit

just goes to show you that even though folks disagree on issues in the game.  once u fly with em and hear the voice on the other end, perceptions change and the fun begins.

S! gents

Ahhh, but this is how the perseptions were created.  Theonly 2 times I've seen him in the MA it was me in a p40 working with 3 or 4 zeros only to be killed picked by him in his 5" gun.  Funny dont you think? 5 years in the game, I see him twice picking fighters with a 5" gun.  I've met some of the others too either BnZing all day long or vulching the DA.
The have no busines telling anyone what or when to fly it.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by dedalos
Ahhh, but this is how the perseptions were created.  Theonly 2 times I've seen him in the MA it was me in a p40 working with 3 or 4 zeros only to be killed picked by him in his 5" gun.  Funny dont you think? 5 years in the game, I see him twice picking fighters with a 5" gun.  I've met some of the others too either BnZing all day long or vulching the DA.
The have no busines telling anyone what or when to fly it.

So, you got whacked twice by a 5" gun and that's the basis of your analysis?
Too bad we both fly so little in the MAs.

Ask around, you'll find that I can more than hold my own in a fighter..... Ask DadRabit. Ask Skyrock. Ask Platano. Ask Murdr. Ask TC. Ask BearKats. Ask 2bighorn. Ask Batfink. Ask anyone who has flown against me. Or....

Stop by the TA on Thursday night for our weekly 3v1 event. You will get two wingman and all three of you get to try to kill me. You get to pick ANY prop fighter. I usually fly the 109G-2, P-40E and yes, the SBD on occasion. Rules are simple: players must engage, no loitering above to cherry pick. Since you don't suffer damage, the fight depends on the honor system. If you take a hit to the cockpit glass, you are considered dead and must turn on smoke and exit the fight beyond icon range. Then you can return to the brawl. This prevents a perpetual 3v1 and rewards pilots for good flying and good shooting. So far as I can determine, no one has cheated or fudged on that rule. Merges are usually between 5k and 10k, with the fights always ending up in the weeds. Players may reup if they auger, as long as the fight hasn't ended due to gas, ammo or all three crashing out.

We then rotate. Everyone gets to fly against 3 or more, several times. There are usually 3 or more groups. Murdr, Mace, TC and Hammer have participated too. Rolex is sometimes available, as is Ghosth. Very few noobs participate, with most pilots being MA regulars.

This exercise is to build SA and wingman skills. It works. This was the type of event that DadRabit enjoyed so much. Heck, almost everyone who has participated once, comes back for the next one.

So, rather than exchange personal insults or bicker back and forth, drop in and join the crowd. There's no smack talk, no expectations, no egos. It's all about having a good time while improving one's skills. Give it a go dedalos, you'll enjoy it and find it very challenging.

My regards,

Widewing

[Widewing]

Originally posted by dedalos
Sounds like the way you guys fly.  High and safe

Which guys? The Trainers? I don't know of one Trainer who flies like that in the MA. They can usually be found down in the weeds.

My regards,

Widewing

[Slash27]

Rolex steals my kills.

[AKKaz]

Originally posted by dedalos
Agreed, for the 98% we use what we have (ENY).  When ENY started people and HT said give it time.  Well, it had time.  It is either not working or it has reached its potential.  In either case, the people that keep complaining about it are not changing countries.

Dedalos, I know this isn't the only you wrote in response and not just picking at yous, but this statement I have heard numorous times about changing side and just using your to address a response.

Have been on more than a few times when the country that we are flying for had nmy above 20 and a few times above 30.  Have switched countries to the lowest side to help balance it out some and within 45 mins to an hour the nmy went from 0 to over 20 again.  A couple of nights 4 or 5 of us switched 3 times within a 3 hour period to have the nmy go to what we left just because others either logged or went to another arena.  Changing sides works only for as long as the people that are currently on stay on.

Sure there are plenty of good rides available when nmy goes up, but does it really do what it was intended to do?  From the beginning it was stated to help those that had less to be able to somewhat have a "leg" up on the others that had more.  Balancing, no.... but to give the country that was undermanned a equalizer.  Is that working?  I don't know, but 15 la's and spits against 4 la's and spits or 15 zekes against 4 la's and spits, it's your call if those types are better for the 4 or worse.

Either way will keep flying and having fun.

[Ghastly]

Originally posted by Ghastly
I couldn't agree more - the problem is that ENY as currently implemented ( or so it appears to me) performs only a token amount of leveling, and in fact worsens the situation a lot of the time, because it's a "shotgun" approach when what's needed is a scalpel.  With all the issues surrounding it, I can't help but feel that in many instances it's the bathwater that drowns the baby.

What I would do if it were my game and the goal were to force a more level playing field across the map is apply ENY calculations to a circle around each field - or at least use the "sector tallies" that are already calculated.    I've diagrammed it so it's more easily communicated. The larger squares around each field show the 9 squares used to calculate the ENY for the field that's enclosed in the same same color box, except that the yellow square around A15 designates the larger area examined to determine whether to ever calculate ENY for that field.  Imagine the scenario described below:

Total Players in the Arena -Rooks 104, Bishops 70, Knights 85.  
Total players in NE corner ... Rooks 14 - Bishops 29



If we were to apply the current "overall ENY" calculation, it wouldn't have any effect, or only marginal - and what's more, against the guys who are already outnumbered in the area of the map shown. But if we were to apply a "9 square ENY calculation", we'd see each base shown as being affected so:

A9 14 Rook-29 Bishop (Red Square) Harsh ENY on Bishops
A10 6R-9B (Blue Square) Less Harsh ENY on Bishops
C13 1R-7B (Purple) No ENY, (numbers below thresholds)
A10 0R-0B (White) No ENY
15- N/A No enemy base w/in this sector or 2 on either side, No ENY calc at all.

What does this do?  First of all, when a few more Rooks sign into the game, the few defenders up here aren't further hampered by suddenly being smacked with ENY when the majority of new guys signing in go join the horde overrunning the Knights elsewhere on the map. Instead of bailing on the defense and going to join the horde too, it breathes new life into this corner of the map - the new guys joining the game can come up here and fight with an ENY advantage, or go horde up elsewhere and suffer an ENY penalty.

Secondly, it spreads the fight out.  Players are going to be taking off from A9 (because it's close), A10 (because they can get a little better plane), A11 (get any plane) , and C13 (get any CV based plane no problem) .  This means that theres no longer a horde, since it's been broken up by the game mechanics, and the defenders get a chance to fight against locally diminished odds.  

Thirdly, it means that somewhere on the map a squadron can always get their ride, they just have to "pay" with implementing some fuel management and longer flight time.  There is also some incentive in general to fly further distances at reduced throttles, which adds an element to the game that's currently largely missing.

Just my thoughts, anyway.

Never mind - I just realized why this (and probably any other locally applied ENY I can think of) wouldn't work well, either.

[pluck]

n/m

[dedalos]

Originally posted by AKKaz
Dedalos, I know this isn't the only you wrote in response and not just picking at yous, but this statement I have heard numorous times about changing side and just using your to address a response.

Have been on more than a few times when the country that we are flying for had nmy above 20 and a few times above 30.  Have switched countries to the lowest side to help balance it out some and within 45 mins to an hour the nmy went from 0 to over 20 again.  A couple of nights 4 or 5 of us switched 3 times within a 3 hour period to have the nmy go to what we left just because others either logged or went to another arena.  Changing sides works only for as long as the people that are currently on stay on.

Sure there are plenty of good rides available when nmy goes up, but does it really do what it was intended to do?  From the beginning it was stated to help those that had less to be able to somewhat have a "leg" up on the others that had more.  Balancing, no.... but to give the country that was undermanned a equalizer.  Is that working?  I don't know, but 15 la's and spits against 4 la's and spits or 15 zekes against 4 la's and spits, it's your call if those types are better for the 4 or worse.

Either way will keep flying and having fun.

Not sure if we agree or disagree on this one, lol.

ENY crossed 20 last night and I switched.  My point about people not switching was that (especially on the weekends) when people have squad nights and they have been working to win the war, they are not going to switch when the losers leave and ENY goes up.  They worked on it for 2 maybe 3 hours and now we expect them to switch?  I don't fight the war so I dont care about changing sides.  When the F4Us were not available last night I changed to Bish.  But last night was a perfect example of what happens.  The reset was just delaied by ENY leading to hordingg the last fields and no good fights.  There was no balance.

I bet balance returned after the reset though

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Widewing
So, you got whacked twice by a 5" gun and that's the basis of your analysis?

Too bad we both fly so little in the MAs.

A better way to say that is that got wacked by a dweeb picking off fighters from a 5" gun.  I'm in the MA almost every day.  If you get in a plane below 5K you may find me.

Ask around, you'll find that I can more than hold my own in a fighter..... Ask DadRabit. Ask Skyrock. Ask Platano. Ask Murdr. Ask TC. Ask BearKats. Ask 2bighorn. Ask Batfink. Ask anyone who has flown against me. Or....

Why? Who cares? This is not about how good you are.  Its about making BS statements about planes.  

Stop by the TA on Thursday night for our weekly 3v1 event. You will get two wingman and all three of you get to try to kill me. You get to pick ANY prop fighter. I usually fly the 109G-2, P-40E and yes, the SBD on occasion. Rules are simple: players must engage, no loitering above to cherry pick. Since you don't suffer damage, the fight depends on the honor system. If you take a hit to the cockpit glass, you are considered dead and must turn on smoke and exit the fight beyond icon range. Then you can return to the brawl. This prevents a perpetual 3v1 and rewards pilots for good flying and good shooting. So far as I can determine, no one has cheated or fudged on that rule. Merges are usually between 5k and 10k, with the fights always ending up in the weeds. Players may reup if they auger, as long as the fight hasn't ended due to gas, ammo or all three crashing out.

We then rotate. Everyone gets to fly against 3 or more, several times. There are usually 3 or more groups. Murdr, Mace, TC and Hammer have participated too. Rolex is sometimes available, as is Ghosth. Very few noobs participate, with most pilots being MA regulars.

This exercise is to build SA and wingman skills. It works. This was the type of event that DadRabit enjoyed so much. Heck, almost everyone who has participated once, comes back for the next one.

So, rather than exchange personal insults or bicker back and forth, drop in and join the crowd. There's no smack talk, no expectations, no egos. It's all about having a good time while improving one's skills. Give it a go dedalos, you'll enjoy it and find it very challenging.

My regards,

Widewing

Bla bla bla bla.  As you said, I issued the chalenge.  It is for the DA.  What are you afraid of?  The only think I can think of that you cant go pew pew pew I got a hit with a 303 and I killed you.  What else do you have to wory about?  Either accept the chalenge or let it go.