Gotta admire ol' dubya

[0thehero]

Not to mention sanctions simply dont work. Case in point. North Korea

Really?  We didn't have to bomb North Korea for this concession--we just talked and cajoled and coerced.

National interests... OIL
Oil just inst in our national interest oil IS our national interest.

Great point.  Access to oil is indeed a national interest.  But with oil presently at $70/bbl, whereas prior to the war oil was only $32/bbl, it would have been cheaper to just buy the oil.  Invading Iraq only made this national interest more expensive and fed the retarded conspiratorial dreams of GWB's enemies about the oil industry.

Sadam remained a threat to the region.
It has been widely reported by just about every news media well before the war that he stated goal was to dominate and be the leader of the middle east.
So long as he remained in power he was a threat to the region. And thus was a threat to our national interest.

And so long as he was contained within his No-Fly Zones, it wasn't like he could go anywhere or do anything to his neighbors without us knowing and stopping him.  Containment was working, because despite neo-con beliefs, he wasn't going to live forever.  Saddam had one of the largest, most experienced armies on the planet during the first Gulf War.  He was effectively neutered after that conflict.  You can state your goals all day long, but your ability to successfully execute those goals is what counts.  Just look at GWB...

<<
Iraqi Forces Continue to Grow in Number.
In September 2004, there were only 96,000 trained and equipped Iraqi Security Forces. By November 2005, there were more than 212,000. As of May 30th, there were nearly 350,000 trained and equipped Iraqi Security Forces.>>

Oh, sweet.  I didn't know that.  If that's really true, then why are we still there again?

It's the odd thing about America. Nowhere else in the world do so many different cultures and religions live (excluding a small number of bad eggs) in peace. Except in a few rare cases we just don't have the sort of home-grown terrorism you see even in many other parts of the West.

Christians, Jews and Muslims, who are at each other's throats elsewhere in the world, here attend the same schools, live in the same neighborhoods and (again, in the majority of cases) call each other friends. People make a big deal about racisim in the United States, but there are still MANY countries were different ethnic groups are excluded from even the OPPORTUNITY of bettering their position in society, if not being made the targets of government-sponsored violence.

Amen.  Thank whatever Higher Power you believe in for that reality.  Another thing that makes this country great.

[Gunthr]

But Bush didn't identify the Muhammaden threat per se. But close enough for jazz. - Hap

what i mean is, i think Bush is one of the few politicians who really understand the nature of the clash between Islamists and the west.  

personally, i think that Bush's grasp of Islamism will be just about the sum total of his legacy.   contrast Bush's concrete understanding of this issue with the la-la land understanding of someone like presidential candidate Edwards -  that is a stark contrast - and Bush's best contribution to the country in my view.

there are many anecdotal true stories out there about what a good, kind man Bush is.  you don't see them in the news - its more word of mouth.

For example, the story of my friend and associate, a motorman - a motorcycle police officer for those who don't know the lingo - who dumped his bike while escorting the presidential motorcade.  Bush saw the officer go down, and although the motorcade couldn't stop, he detailed two secret service agents to the hospital to meet with doctors and arrange for them to confer with Bush's personal physician.  the agents also personally took care of all family notifications, which they did in person for the nuclear family members. Bush spoke to the officer on the phone, gave the officer the phone number of his own doctor and told him to keep him informed.  Bush called the officer on the phone 4 times, checking up on him during the next few weeks.  He invited the officer to come and see him at the white house when he recovered.   When my friend was fully recovered and back on the job, he bought a new suit and went to see the President at the whitehouse.  He actually shot the ***** with the president for half an hour in the oval office.  (my associate got me an autographed photo of Mr and Mrs Bush)  you don't forget things like this.

there are a lot more anecdotal stories about what a good person Bush is, including the one repeated by President Clinton who said that it would be a mistake to underestimate Bush.  

i think Bush really cares about people, and it bothers me to see people try to tear his image to shreds and purposely ignore the man's good points.  i think he really is as honest a politician - with all his faults - as you will find.

[Hap]

Originally posted by Gunthr
what i mean is, i think Bush is one of the few politicians who really understand the nature of the clash between Islamists and the west.

[/b]

Don't know about "few," and "the nature of the clash," but very generally I agree with you.

If I were King (lol), I'd get us off foreign -- at least middle eastern -- oil.  

If the objection, "it cannot be done" be true today.  There's no reason that a decade from now for it still to be true except venal ones.

[Gunthr]

most liberal candidates downplay or flat out reject the global war on terror.  but  that may be political posturing...  i do believe that in 2009 we will still be in Iraq no matter who is the president.  Bush gets it.  he will not pull completely out of Iraq.   neither will any democrat president, which will freak out a lot of the left wing voters.

amen to the goal of independance from middle eastern oil - and long term - from oil period.   that won't be happening for quite a long while tho.  One thing for sure, whoever is elected in 08, they will also face a lot of pressure to allow drilling and exploitation of our own petroleum resources along with looking for ways to reduce consumption and dependance.   presidential candidates should be careful what they wish for... its going to be a hellacious job.

[Carrel]

Originally posted by Shuckins
And yet, almost every criticism leveled at the Bush administration has to do with or stems from the war....and the war alone.

You need to catch up on your current affairs Shuckins...there's alot more to critisize this administration about than just the war.