I hate russia.

[Elfie]

Originally posted by Toad
In the early '60's the US did have a war plan that included a first strike against the Soviets in the event the US had strategic warning of a Soviet attack.

Common sense. I'm sure the Soviets had the same.

That would be a preemptive strike then and I don't believe that is what Boroda is talking about. I believe he is talking about an unprovoked first strike.

[Elfie]

Personally, having travelled there pretty extensively over the last 3 years, I've yet to come across a single person who has no negative opinions of the travesties of the past

It seems that you don't actually have to do any traveling to find a single person with no negative feelings or opinions of the travesties of the past. Just read this thread.

Your statement does show that Boroda does seem to be in the minority even amongst his fellow countrymen.

[Neubob]

Originally posted by Elfie
It seems that you don't actually have to do any traveling to find a single person with no negative feelings or opinions of the travesties of the past. Just read this thread.

Your statement does show that Boroda does seem to be in the minority even amongst his fellow countrymen.

In respect to Beard, I have long ago agreed to disagree with his beliefs, albeit unilaterally. Given the modern state of things, how anybody, from anywhere, can be an unequivocal patriot, is beyond me.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by storch
karaya why are you calling him a pathological liar?

let me explain something to us all about the truth since the fall of man.

think of the truth as if it were a mirror.  since the fall of man that perfect mirror was shattered and now everyone has a sliver of that truth.  many find a shard and claim loudly I HAVE THE TRUTH.  in fact all of can only hope to ever have but a small piece of the truth.  absolute truth belongs absolutely to God.  neither you nor I nor boroda have the truth but mere slivers of it.

Why are you directing this towards me and not other's who have just said the same thing?

Storch, I personally do NOT have a problem with you.   You have an agenda with me, and that is that.    I have NO PROBLEM with you in game also, but when my squad is involved, I'll say something.   Just as I would expect you to defend "Grunherz".     Like when I was trying to "get to" WidleSau the other night, but kept having to dodge a HO'ing Niki.     I have no problem trying to clear YOU.    The ball is on your court on the above storch.

I've listened to his "Communism rules" crap for too long.   Even you didn't realize the "Death Toll" under Lenin, as do many others.    Other's are starting to see the haze and "blind acceptance" of Boroda to the Joys of Communism.   Bottom line, there is no joy to it.    It is borderline poverty.   Take ANY Communist country on the face of the Earth and take them on a Tour of the UK, Germany, Netherlands, Italy, France, US, or Japan.   Tell me "Cuba, Vietnam, China, Russia and it's former seizures, and tell me they were better off under Communism."    

The flip side is I, personally, harbor no "ill feelings" towards any Communist country.    I just have a problem when another human being, avoids facts and tries to grandstand with every fact being refuted.  

Best bet is to ask "former East Germans".   I happen to personally know 4 families, that were shattered over a single wall.    Relatives hadn't seen each other from the time that wall went up, until it came down.  

Boroda DOES have some issues, I am not using this as a "poke at him", he should get some professional help.    This is beyond "brainwashed".    To just "blindly" rejoice over "Communism" is sheer lunacy at best.    If the Cubans "love Communism", why do they want to come to the US?    We both know why, "Communism is just above poverty".

[storch]

K you have a difference of opinion with the beard.  so do I.  I don't see him as a pathological liar.  he views the world from a filter far different from the one one you and I do.   his truth is different from our truth.  if you believe what you have read or have learned from your sources and this is fact what you believe would it be acceptable for me to call you a patholical liar for your beliefs?

that's all I'm saying here.

the question was posed to you because you flung the pooh.

the beard has been arguing his position and carrying on a multi front war, doing so with panaché.

can you guys at least credit him with good sportsmanship?

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Neubob
My entire family is russian, Fishu, and the only one, out of the entire lot, whether living here in the States or back there, that hasn't at least a mild resentment for the Soviet system, as well as what came after, is my 103-year-old grandfather, who grew up under Lenin.

Being largely Jewish, most of the others have more than just a mild resentment, but I suppose you've never met people like this in your business dealings. Maybe one day you will.

Personally, having traveled there pretty extensively over the last 3 years, I've yet to come across a single person who has no negative opinions of the travesties of the past, or the corrupt decay of the present. Those who managed to profit from the current mess will get theirs, and they know it, and that is part of the price.

Neubob, what ALL OF YOU fail to see, is that I could sit  right across from you and talk to you and have a civil conversation for HOURS on end.    However, I'd walk away at the start of a "political conversation".

I watch my oldest brother who is 9 years older than me and bases EVERY FACET, OF EVERY WAKING HOUR on politics.   He is so hard line Democrat, that when I see him after a long lapse, I have to be tormented by hearing the "latest Bush did this, Republicans did this" s*it.    Everything has a "political undertone", I mean everything.  

I am a Moderate, both parties here in the US are corrupt, full of liars, and gave care less about me.   I feel bad for my brother because he allows "liars" into, and run his daily life.   I let him say what he wants, completely devoid of response, and when he is done, I'll move on to something more productive.  

I rarely talk about Ideologies, Religion, or any "touchy subject", simply because I don't allow to "run my life".    

I could probably talk to Boroda for hours on just music alone.    Am I making any sense here?    There is more to life than "making everything a political debate".

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by storch
K you have a difference of opinion with the beard.  so do I.  I don't see him as a pathological liar.  he views the world from a filter far different from the one one you and I do.   his truth is different for our truth.  if you believe what you have read or have learned from your sources and this is fact what you believe would it be acceptable for me to call you a patholical liar for your beliefs?

that's all I'm saying here.

the question was posed to you because you flung the pooh.

the beard has been arguing his position and carrying on a multi front war, doing so with panaché.

can you guys at least credit him with good sportsmanship?

Look up, I was NOT the only one to call him one.   Please, look up.    That was my point all along storch.    I called him one, I'll take my "hand slap".    Be sure and "share the wealth though".    

I can back all of my "accusations" by fact, websites, novels, and other formats.   Political Science was a former Major of mine.   I don't come on here and start political threads, you won't find a single one.    I try and resist, but when someone types something so "blindly", I try and help them.    But they keep "piling on with the blind path of slinging more caca del toro" to "outdo the last post".    

He is getting a beating on here, but will concoct another "groundbreaker" to post in the coming hours.   It's predictable, again, I feel bad for him.    All he has to is "stop piling on crap" and it will cease, but EVERYONE knows he won't.  

I deal in a realm of facts, and facts alone.   Everything else, is wasted and expended energy.

[Neubob]

I wasn't even talking about what you said, Masherbrum. I have no doubt that you could carry on a calm, civil conversation.

My only quibble (which, I admit, was probably voiced out of over-sensitivity and an inability to see past what I snap-judged as a sweeping personal attack on all Russians) was with Fishu's comment. However, as I said initially, there are worse things than being hated. At least while being hated, you're sure never to be forgotten, overlooked or ignored.

I'm not a fan of political discussions. To me, discussing politics is exactly like discussing religion. At the end of the day, no matter how much or how little logic you use, you're not gonna change anybody's mind. I've been with these boards for years now, and I don't think I've seen a single political conversion come about solely from discussion. What does come about, almost without fail, is a pissing match about who's right, who's wrong, who's smart, who's dumb, who's a saint, who's a degenerate, and, inevitably, who's blind and who has seen the light.

So I'm with you on that issue.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Neubob
I wasn't even talking about what you said, Masherbrum. I have no doubt that you could carry on a calm, civil conversation.

My only quibble (which, I admit, was probably voiced out of over-sensitivity and an inability to see past what I snap-judged as a sweeping personal attack on all Russians) was with Fishu's comment. However, as I said initially, there are worse things than being hated. At least while being hated, you're sure never to be forgotten, overlooked or ignored.

I'm not a fan of political discussions. To me, discussing politics is exactly like discussing religion. At the end of the day, no matter how much or how little logic you use, you're not gonna change anybody's mind. I've been with these boards for years now, and I don't think I've seen a single political conversion come about solely from discussion. What does come about, almost without fail, is a pissing match about who's right, who's wrong, who's smart, who's dumb, who's a saint, who's a degenerate, and, inevitably, who's blind and who has seen the light.

So I'm with you on that issue.

Neubob, I know you weren't but I figured I'd tell the community.  

<> Neubob, maybe one day our path's will cross.

[Angus]

Getting back on the rail, and away from reublicans&democrats:

Originally posted by Neubob
My entire family is russian, Fishu, and the only one, out of the entire lot, whether living here in the States or back there, that hasn't at least a mild resentment for the Soviet system, as well as what came after, is my 103-year-old grandfather, who grew up under Lenin.

Being largely Jewish, most of the others have more than just a mild resentment, but I suppose you've never met people like this in your business dealings. Maybe one day you will.

Personally, having travelled there pretty extensively over the last 3 years, I've yet to come across a single person who has no negative opinions of the travesties of the past, or the corrupt decay of the present. Those who managed to profit from the current mess will get theirs, and they know it, and that is part of the price.

IMHO a very good input Neubob for a thread hardly worth it. TY.

[Neubob]

Much appreciated, Angus,

And

<> to you too, Masherbrum

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
You are a pathological Liar.

It seems to me that you are a bright representative of intellectual majority.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Elfie
That would be a preemptive strike then and I don't believe that is what Boroda is talking about. I believe he is talking about an unprovoked first strike.

Drop Shot plan. Also see Fleetwood, Charioter, and succeeding plans and documents. Drop Shot plan was disclosed in late-60s. And yes, it projected up to 50% losses for SAC bombers. As well as killing about 10 million Soviet civilians in first two weeks.

Funny that there is almost no information available about this plans on the Net.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Neubob
In respect to Beard, I have long ago agreed to disagree with his beliefs, albeit unilaterally. Given the modern state of things, how anybody, from anywhere, can be an unequivocal patriot, is beyond me.

Look, I have told my opinion on current state of affairs. I understand your opinion. I am not in any way a fan of comrade Putin.

My point is: both systems were equally good or bad. Now it's history, and I don't want people who planned to burn us with cold blood (and I am absolutely sure they'll never hesitate if they'll see a 50% probability of success) throw **** at my Counrty, at the people who defeated nazis and then built up our country from ashes to face the threat of a nuclear holocaust only because they wanted to live their own way.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Angus
Boroda:
""Allies" refused from all Soviet offers, refused to deploy any significant forces against Germany and literally forced USSR to sign a non-aggression treaty with nazis."

Oh dear. Poor little Soviet FORCED into dealing with Hitler.


Well, in that case, the unimportant UK was not? And that's why USSR had to eat up half of Poland and invade Finland as well as annexing the baltic states.

Poor little kitty...errrr....bear.

Go read something about Moscow negotiations 1939. Here is a good book that contains quotes from protocols: http://www.amazon.com/Borrowed-Time-How-World-Began/dp/0394439104/ref=sr_1_1/105-4965757-8284424?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184845311&sr=8-1

It's useless to argue until you'll read something about that. It's a book by a British author, hard to say it's "Soviet propaganda", and the story of this negotiations was usually outside Soviet history text-books.