I hate russia.

[Nilsen]

oh my

[klingan]

J/K, i hope u know that

[Angus]

Hortlund:
"Except you cant have mutual security with your only threat. Since 1800, Finland and Sweden has only been threatened from the east.

And you are quite charming when you declare that Finland should have given up a part of its territory to you...and therefore Finland is responsible for the war...where you invaded them and took their lands. "

Very spot on IMHO.

And Boroda, - while the USSR was having war with Finland to "secure" itself against Britain and Germany, the USSR was (you teach animals through the way of repedition, so I also try it here) HAVING BUSINESS AND A DEAL WITH GERMANY.
The Swedes also did their business, the business was also open from Germany to USA, - the only ones in the way were the UK.
Guess you needed Finland to defend from them, huh?

And by the way, on more personal notes, my wife's Grandma, was intered for a while (together with her few-months baby) by the USSR. The tales from that make you sick. However she was lucky, for she had a ride away, with Vilhelm Gustloff, but didn't get aboard....

[Angus]

Originally posted by Boroda
I always said that White-Finnish war was an act of aggression from Soviet side. Hard to deny obvious things (but our Finnish friends still try). But it looks foolish, typical "democratic" govt failure with reality-check: losing much after refusing to give little for significant sum of money and investments in infrastructure and maybe even jobs.
 

You just said the opposite. And the Finnish have been holding up the opposite to what you claim about them.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Angus
And Boroda, - while the USSR was having war with Finland to "secure" itself against Britain and Germany, the USSR was (you teach animals through the way of repedition, so I also try it here) HAVING BUSINESS AND A DEAL WITH GERMANY.
The Swedes also did their business, the business was also open from Germany to USA, - the only ones in the way were the UK.
Guess you needed Finland to defend from them, huh?

Again the money for the fish. We needed technology and weapons, Germans gave it for the things that were useless in USSR. They were supplying their enemy.

USSR raised a question of "indirect aggression" in a League of Nations, and it happened exactly as Soviet leadership predicted: in June 1941 Finland was used as a beachhead for German bombers and troops. It took Finns and Germans several months to reach the old border line in 1941, incomplete Hanko base also distracted significant forces from Leningrad. Without that - Leningrad was doomed.

Originally posted by Angus
And by the way, on more personal notes, my wife's Grandma, was intered for a while (together with her few-months baby) by the USSR. The tales from that make you sick. However she was lucky, for she had a ride away, with Vilhelm Gustloff, but didn't get aboard....

I told you, my Grand-Uncle was killed at Koenigsberg in April 1945, he was only 17 years old... IIRC Rip's family also lived in Eastern Prussia...

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Angus
You just said the opposite. And the Finnish have been holding up the opposite to what you claim about them.

????

I have read Tanner's memoirs, it's an eye-opening book, how silly politicians can screw up the situation.

Mine-artillery position was important against German or British navy, as I said. UK signing peace with nazis was considered a most possible development of the situation by Soviet leadership. And in this case balance of power in Eastern Baltics was much worse then in 1914-17. In WWI we had full-scale mine positions plus four dreadnaughts in Helsinki that never left the harbor, plus all kinds of old battleships and small ships. In 1941 we had 2 old battleships (floating batteries), a few modern light cruisers and a handful of destroyers.

[Viking]

What's the point of hate anyway? Hortlund says he hates Russia, but what does that achieve? Hate is an emotion I have trouble understanding, and one that should be shunned at all costs, considering how much evil has been perpetrated because of hatred.

[klingan]

Originally posted by Viking
What's the point of hate anyway? Hortlund says he hates Russia, but what does that achieve? Hate is an emotion I have trouble understanding, and one that should be shunned at all costs, considering how much evil has been perpetrated because of hatred.

I now hate u for beeing right

[Boroda]

Sorry forgot this one.

Originally posted by lazs2
boroda... now I am confused... you mean that soviets could just get a passport and wave to the border guards as they crossed into other countries?

Surely not. You couldn't get a foreign passport unless you had a purpose for a trip abroad, and this passports were not kept on hand, they were stored in passport-visa departments, you returned them when you came back.

I said: you had to apply for emigration. I don't know how, but that guy I met in Australia said it was pretty easy for him to emigrate.

Look, different countries have different laws. It's hard to expect everyone to adopt American system, that is, as I hope you understand, far from perfect (just like any else). In Turkmenistan a girl can get married at 13, so what? bomb them?

Originally posted by lazs2
why even have walls like in berlin?  to keep out the west perhaps?  so that they wouldn't steal soviet automaking secrets perhaps?

Are you saying that all the people who risked their lives to get out of your country... that every one of em was a rocket scientist?

95% of the population were quite happy with what they got. There were some people who eagerly moved to USSR from the US and even claimed political asylum, but you definitely never heard about them in your "free media". There is always some percent of people who are dissatisfied.

Another problem was that state invested huge sums in education, health-care and other things, so letting everyone go was like educating and preparing people who will emigrate and work for the enemy. Cruel but pragmatic We are a poor country and couldn't afford such charity. I look at it as at signing a contract with the State. And we couldn't survive without free education, I think it's obvious.

Originally posted by lazs2
I take offense at you saying that communism is an alternative.   It is dehumanizing slavery... it is hive mentality not suited for humans.   It is the most disgusting political tyranny ever devised.   I would kill anyone who tried to force it on me.

You repeat comic-books from 1950s. You have no idea of what Communism is, and of what was going on here under Soviet Socialism.  "Stop speaking about taste of caviar to people who actually tasted it" (c) Mickhail Zhvanetsky.

It's amazing how easily people are taught to hate things they don't know.

"Dehumanizing slavery"?... I wish you could talk to my Mother who lives in Australia now and came to some interesting conclusions comparing USSR and so-called "free world".

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Boroda
Keep believing this bull****. Looks like it originates in nazi propaganda leaflets from WWII (BTW they really had to be extremely optimistic to print "surrender pass" leaflets until 1944).

My dear distant friend, 62 million you mention plus 27 million in a War - it's over 50% of the population in that times. Propaganda for mentally disabled.

Confirmed number of executed from 21 to 53 is less then one million according to prof. Zemskov's numbers accepted by Western historians. I mean - serious historians, not idiots quoting Solzhenitsyn and bringing ridiculous billions of victims.

Does that Hawaiian site also say that Russian Communists crucified Christ?

Only you say it is, I'm sorry but the amount of civilians killed by Lenin, has NOTHING to do about WWII Germany.    Less than a Million my arse, but obviously your arms never get tired of slinging it.

[lazs2]

total drivel... communism is slavery.   if it worked on freedom then why not simply let anyone go who wanted to?

Why have walls to keep people in if, as you say 95% of the people were happy to live in a prison state?

do you know 95% of the people?  I don't..   I do know that you had to build walls to keep em in or they would have left.   That is the cold hard fact... the elephant in the room.

We have a lot of problem keeping people out... you had to lock em in.. how was soviet russia not a prison?  how was being held captive and forced to work to support others not slavery?

I matters not if you are happy at some point in your captivity or your slavery... that does not make the institution of slavery or communism right.  It merely makes it bearable for that moment.

In that respect... you were indeed an evil empire.   It was bad enough that you did it to your people but you also did it to everyone who couldn't resist your might.   you didn't leave what you conquered... you built walls around it to keep those people in.

Nothing you can say changes that.  Nothing you can say excuses it.  

lazs

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by lazs2
total drivel... communism is slavery.   if it worked on freedom then why not simply let anyone go who wanted to?

Why have walls to keep people in if, as you say 95% of the people were happy to live in a prison state?

do you know 95% of the people?  I don't..   I do know that you had to build walls to keep em in or they would have left.   That is the cold hard fact... the elephant in the room.

We have a lot of problem keeping people out... you had to lock em in.. how was soviet russia not a prison?  how was being held captive and forced to work to support others not slavery?

I matters not if you are happy at some point in your captivity or your slavery... that does not make the institution of slavery or communism right.  It merely makes it bearable for that moment.

In that respect... you were indeed an evil empire.   It was bad enough that you did it to your people but you also did it to everyone who couldn't resist your might.   you didn't leave what you conquered... you built walls around it to keep those people in.

Nothing you can say changes that.  Nothing you can say excuses it.  

lazs

Yep

[storch]

Originally posted by lazs2
total drivel... communism is slavery.   if it worked on freedom then why not simply let anyone go who wanted to?

Why have walls to keep people in if, as you say 95% of the people were happy to live in a prison state?

do you know 95% of the people?  I don't..   I do know that you had to build walls to keep em in or they would have left.   That is the cold hard fact... the elephant in the room.

We have a lot of problem keeping people out... you had to lock em in.. how was soviet russia not a prison?  how was being held captive and forced to work to support others not slavery?

I matters not if you are happy at some point in your captivity or your slavery... that does not make the institution of slavery or communism right.  It merely makes it bearable for that moment.

In that respect... you were indeed an evil empire.   It was bad enough that you did it to your people but you also did it to everyone who couldn't resist your might.   you didn't leave what you conquered... you built walls around it to keep those people in.

Nothing you can say changes that.  Nothing you can say excuses it.  

lazs

yep

[Boroda]

Originally posted by lazs2
total drivel... communism is slavery.   if it worked on freedom then why not simply let anyone go who wanted to?

Why have walls to keep people in if, as you say 95% of the people were happy to live in a prison state?

do you know 95% of the people?  I don't..   I do know that you had to build walls to keep em in or they would have left.   That is the cold hard fact... the elephant in the room.

We have a lot of problem keeping people out... you had to lock em in.. how was soviet russia not a prison?  how was being held captive and forced to work to support others not slavery?

I matters not if you are happy at some point in your captivity or your slavery... that does not make the institution of slavery or communism right.  It merely makes it bearable for that moment.

In that respect... you were indeed an evil empire.   It was bad enough that you did it to your people but you also did it to everyone who couldn't resist your might.   you didn't leave what you conquered... you built walls around it to keep those people in.

Nothing you can say changes that.  Nothing you can say excuses it.  

lazs

Define "communism". Define "freedom". Define "slavery".

You speak about things you don't have a slightest idea of. Should I post a same diatribe about so-called "free world" here?

Yes, you have to keep people out, just as we do, and this is a clear and bright illustration to your hypocrisy: now it's YOU who build a new Iron Curtain. Nothing changes. All this hype about "walls" and "keeping people in" is nothing but propaganda bull****.

Look, you planned to burn us only because we give people an alternative, a different way, a reason to doubt the "divinely given" state of affairs in the West, undermining the power of your "democratically-elected" olygarchy.  A sick "protestant ethics" against Orthodox moral, it have been a problem for you for centuries. Your anti-communist propaganda crap isn't much different from slogans and brainwashing of the 7-Years War or Teutons robbing and raping our North-West since XIII century.

[storch]

the berlin wall was put up to keep west berliners out?  people are building rafts in miami and risking their lives to return to cuba?

bar tender I'll have what pavel is having please.