Author Topic: Proof P47 is handy capped  (Read 5211 times)

Offline Speed55

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Proof P47 is handy capped
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2007, 08:24:49 AM »
The hellcat is undermodelled.  

I was in the MA a while back and i got killed by a zero.

I was watching the dogfights show, and they said how the hellcat pwns the zero.   There's definitely something wrong with the hellcat in the game.
It's blue and has a tailhook, and it even carries big bombs so there's no way that the zero should have killed me.

If you don't believe me go watch the dogfights.  Ha suckers, i just proved that the l33t info is out there so don't bother trying to re-buttle me.

....And  profalactically speaking,  i was once on an airplane with 2 propellers, so i know how a flight model works.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2007, 08:29:27 AM by Speed55 »
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Offline SirLoin

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Proof P47 is handy capped
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2007, 08:54:30 AM »
As big as the Jug was..didnt the f6F have an even larger wingspan?
**JOKER'S JOKERS**

Offline SlapShot

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Proof P47 is handy capped
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2007, 09:08:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
As big as the Jug was..didnt the f6F have an even larger wingspan?


Wingspan ... 42 ft 10 in
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Offline Benny Moore

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« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2007, 09:20:42 AM »
While I do believe that the P-47 (and most American aircraft in Aces High II) are handicapped in that they are running at some of the lowest ratings they ran at in reality, you make very bad arguments.  First, the P-47 was not the most-produced fighter of all time; that would be the Messershmitt Me-109.  The Republic P-47 was only the highest-produced American fighter of all time.  Second, the flight model seems to be accurate, given the model and rating it's supposed to model.  The problem lies in almost nobody knowing what ratings were actually used for each aircraft.  Hitech (and most other simulator developer) has gone with the power ratings given in the pilot manuals for each ship.  Again, those ratings were, unfortunately, some of the lowest ratings that the actual birds ran at.  The later, higher ratings never made it into the manual; instead, they were sent to individual units via memorandums.  It was official; you can find the documents at Mike Williams' excellent site, Wwiiaircraftperformance.com, which was already linked.

Also, people are right when they say that History Channel cannot be trusted.  It is entertainment, and statements made on History Channel have been proven false many times.  Television is not a good source of information, and Internet sites aren't much better.  Books, while far from infallible, at least require a great deal of effort to write and get published, and authors' credentials can be checked.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2007, 09:23:30 AM by Benny Moore »

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2007, 09:22:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
As big as the Jug was..didnt the f6F have an even larger wingspan?
Yes.  

Uriel, I don't feel bad for you.   You've acted like a teenager in the aspect that WE "should somehow dispel your moronic claims of P-47 elitism where it is not granted".    You made the moronic claims and provided one old link that didn't handle your discussion, in the 2 days.  You brought it on yourself.  Problem is, you're the dense one but it hasn't hit you yet.

The TWO threads you've started over this prove your "denseness".
« Last Edit: August 11, 2007, 09:24:40 AM by Masherbrum »
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Offline 64kills

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Proof P47 is handy capped
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2007, 09:53:24 AM »
Uriel try this i want you and mrdur to go into a h2h arena and then go to 109 best perdormance alt the go to p47 best performence alt yes the 109 has a lower performance alt but that is the disadvantage 109 were for intercept or escort not dogfighting the cannnon was for riping apart bombers not  dogfighting  





therfor you do that you'll see

Offline Widewing

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Proof P47 is handy capped
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2007, 09:56:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Uriel
ah see what I mean? pure denial.. this is a 35 not even a D-40 no paddle prop yet but a jug loaded with 8 50's does not go 363 at 5k in this game.. not without diving.. anyways I have done my duty.. here are real charts and real training videos declassified... you pay for them


Every P-47 beginning with the D-22 was fitted with paddle-blade props at the factory. Virtually every previous model back to the D-5 was fitted with paddle type props in the field.

HTC has modeled the P-47s very accurately to existing test data. Here's an example.



This next chart shows climb for a D-10 fitted with various props.



Examine this chart and you will see that nowhere is 363 mph seen at 5,000 feet.



Your problem is that you lack any primary source documentation and pluck your numbers from website sources that offer no substantiating documentation.

Here's HTC's speed and climb charts for the P-47D-40 with max internal fuel and full internal ammunition...
 



I think you need to be less obtuse and strident in your argument, and find reliable test data, rather than rant like spoiled school girl.

My regards,

Widewing
« Last Edit: August 11, 2007, 09:58:59 AM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

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Offline Widewing

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Re: MORE PROOF!!!
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2007, 10:16:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by WMLute



As signs go, I kinda like this one...



My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2007, 10:37:39 AM »
Yet another WideWing pwnage !!!

:aok
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Offline bj229r

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Proof P47 is handy capped
« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2007, 10:42:31 AM »
Widewing on the propeller chart, which one represents the 'paddle' prop, and did anyone notice the charts show the "N" with a greater climb rate than the "D"? In AH, N falls behind D40 in climb rate with similar loads about 20% across the board
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Offline ssDruid

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Uriel just forget it
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2007, 11:00:07 AM »
It does no good to get into arguments over things that are trivial in nature. Because in the long run it is not going to change anything anyway. The "JUG" is a great aircraft, but like all the aircraft in this game it is misrepresented in a big way. Take for instance, look at all of the material concerning the Typhoon, and everyone will see it was the biggest joke plane of World War 2. But in the game it is "Super Plane".
Another concern would the how the armament rating is set in this game. As all true veterans will tell you, the API ( that is Armor Piercing Incendiary for you non-military types) for the .50 Caliber Machine Guns, will literally burst a plane into flames after a quick hit from these rounds. And yes they were used in WW2 and a lot of the old warstock from that war is still being used today in the desert theaters.

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2007, 11:08:28 AM »
ssDruid, see Forum Rule 17.
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Offline Panzzer

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« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2007, 11:09:23 AM »
[offtopic] The Typhoon was pressed into service long before it was finished, that's why it gained the bad reputation. The one we have in game is Typhoon IB, which doesn't have the engine and tail troubles the Typhoons first suffered from. [/offtopic]
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Offline SlapShot

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Re: Uriel just forget it
« Reply #43 on: August 11, 2007, 11:09:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ssDruid
It does no good to get into arguments over things that are trivial in nature. Because in the long run it is not going to change anything anyway. The "JUG" is a great aircraft, but like all the aircraft in this game it is misrepresented in a big way. Take for instance, look at all of the material concerning the Typhoon, and everyone will see it was the biggest joke plane of World War 2. But in the game it is "Super Plane".
Another concern would the how the armament rating is set in this game. As all true veterans will tell you, the API ( that is Armor Piercing Incendiary for you non-military types) for the .50 Caliber Machine Guns, will literally burst a plane into flames after a quick hit from these rounds. And yes they were used in WW2 and a lot of the old warstock from that war is still being used today in the desert theaters.


I never ran into a Typhoon 1 v 1 that I couldn't slap the crap out of in less than 3 turns ... so I would hardly consider it a "Super Plane". It is a favorite of the "HO and RUN" mindset and the "Pickers" tho.

I don't believe that the .50 cals that we have in the game have API rounds modeled. The API rounds would only cause a plane to burst into fire if they hit something flammable ... I would think.
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Offline ssDruid

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API
« Reply #44 on: August 11, 2007, 11:20:06 AM »
Yes you are correct on the fact that the API would only cause certain items to catch on fire. Wait a minute, most planes in WW2 were made out of Depleted Uranium and it would take an Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot with Tracer (APFSDS-T) to knock out of the sky. The 50 cal is underrated in this game. It has a tracer burn out of 1800 meters. Okay lets see that is 1.8K on game visual range. Unless you have actually been behind the triggers of a real .50 cal then you can't possibly know what it's true capabilities are.

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