Author Topic: English for beginners...  (Read 7037 times)

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #150 on: September 14, 2007, 09:11:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
I commend those of you who have taken the time to read the dictionary and decided they aren't going to use an offensive racial slur.

Kermit and DREDIOCK and a few others are simply wrong. Your opinions and continued rationalizing do not convince anyone that 2+2=3. Just accept that you are wrong, accept that 2+2=4.

Continuing to insist that 2+2=3 makes people lose respect for you, as I have.


Our opinions differ. To myself and others your math is as you put it 2+2=3
whereas ours is 2+2=4.

I've lived with discrimination and racial slurs. Have you?
and as I've said. I have experienced it from ALL sides. Not just as a Black or Hispanic person being beaten on by whites.
I got it from all sides, black, white AND hispanic.

If not. then all you can do is talk about something you've never been forced to experience.
Thus you would be hardly qualified to rationalise a subject youve never been forced to be a part of.

Unless you have lived my life you are in no way in a position to pass judgement on me in any way, shape or form.

Yes I've dealt with all that and I've chosen to grow from it and become hardened to it rather then become a sniveling crybaby calling out for his mama for protection from being "offended".

I've I veiwed my experiences and ended up like those who complain or see it your way. I couldnt respect myself. Let alone want anyone to respect me.

People will either like you. or they wont. Either respect you. or they wont.
And it could be for any reason from race to hair length. It doesnt matter.

So you've lost respect for me. And for what?
Because I choose not to let silly names bother me?
Because I point out that words only have the power you give them or allow them to have?

If you check I havent called anyone. including myself anything other then what they are. Again. myself included.

Lets do a hypothetical

YOU - "Dred, Your a Spic"
ME - "Yea, so?"
You -...........

Ok now what?
What can you say? Not much because I have now taken all the power of the word away. You feel I should be offended. And perhaps you even wanted me to be. But Im not. So now what? where do we go from there?
Nowhere because there isnt anyplace to go with it.
By not letting such silliness bother me I just defeated your entire attack with two words.

Now if that mode of thinking causes you to loose respect for me.
I dont need it
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #151 on: September 14, 2007, 09:21:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
Mr Webster does not seem to back you on that.


Find a dictionary older then 10 years or so. Its since been redefined as I pointed out several posts ago.
When I was a kid I'd heard the word and knew it was bad but didnt know why. So I looked it up then.
Going by memory it was soemthing like "A dirty filty disuting person of low social standing" or something to that effect.
I do know it didnt have any particular race associated with it at all. As I remember at the time that point being quite intersting as I wondered why only blacks were called it. I certainly knew more then enough whites that could certainly fit that definition.
Some even moreso

And before anyone starts getting their panties in a bunch no Im not including nor am I refering to  anyone here.
 I mean IRL
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
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It ain't pretty

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #152 on: September 14, 2007, 09:29:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
Shame that you read none of my posts drediock


Actually I read all of them.

In fact after I saw this one I went back and read them again to make sure I hadnt missed one.
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
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Offline kvuo75

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« Reply #153 on: September 14, 2007, 11:12:50 PM »
.jp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.jp)


!@!@!!!!@!!1!!!!1!!1111!@!@!!@!@


bunch of .jp planes.. zekes and nikis!
kvuo75

Kill the manned ack.

Offline Murdr

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« Reply #154 on: September 14, 2007, 11:18:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Find a dictionary older then 10 years or so. Its since been redefined as I pointed out several posts ago.
/IT\, I was not aware of this was an issue until about 10-11 years ago.  I, like the thread starter typed it out, and someone politely mentioned to me that it could be offensive to people of Japanese decent.  
My reaction was
"Oh.  Didnt know that, thanks."
Actually, I probably did know (historically), but it never occured to me.

My reaction was not
"**** you.  There is a vast political consperiacy making this up and I will use it anyways because I do not personally know of anyone offended by it, therefore it is not offensive." (call me crazy)


Now considering Rolex is in Japan, and you are not.  I believe that puts his qualifications much higher than yours on the subject of what the Japanese culture might think about a topic.

But that is not what you wish to talk about anyways.  You want to talk about (tommy chong voice) bucking the esablishment and sticking it to the man.

Offline Murdr

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« Reply #155 on: September 14, 2007, 11:19:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Actually I read all of them.

In fact after I saw this one I went back and read them again to make sure I hadnt missed one.
Oh, OK.  Seemed like you missed the root reference going back over 100 years.

Offline B@tfinkV

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« Reply #156 on: September 15, 2007, 12:34:41 AM »
hey Drediock, i have slightly modified your hypothesis if you would humour me.


Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK

Lets do a hypothetical

YOU - "Dred, Your a Spic"
ME - "Yea, so?"
You - so? so im calling you a spic, which makes you a [inset derogatory and insulting definition of a spic]
 



so what now?

do you just say 'yea, so?' again?
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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #157 on: September 15, 2007, 12:57:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
/IT\, I was not aware of this was an issue until about 10-11 years ago.  I, like the thread starter typed it out, and someone politely mentioned to me that it could be offensive to people of Japanese decent.  
My reaction was
"Oh.  Didnt know that, thanks."
Actually, I probably did know (historically), but it never occured to me.

My reaction was not
"**** you.  There is a vast political consperiacy making this up and I will use it anyways because I do not personally know of anyone offended by it, therefore it is not offensive." (call me crazy)


Now considering Rolex is in Japan, and you are not.  I believe that puts his qualifications much higher than yours on the subject of what the Japanese culture might think about a topic.

But that is not what you wish to talk about anyways.  You want to talk about (tommy chong voice) bucking the esablishment and sticking it to the man.


Bucking the establishment and sticking it to the man??
Where the hell did that come from?

If bucking the establishment is resisting this insanity of political correctness of "ohh we have to be careful not to offend every single group that whines about something said being hurtful reguardless if it was said to be hurtful or not." Then yes. and I will do so until my dying breath

But I think your missing my entire point. And it has nothing to do with "sticking it to the man"

If you or Rolex, or anyone else is offended by a word it is because you choose to be offended.
I used to be offended by derogatory ethnic words that were directed at me. And those were done intentionally to offend me.
As soon as I decided it wasn't worth it getting offended over. the words lost all power to hurt me
In the case of the word "Jap"
If I were to say. "Jap plane "I simply mean Japanese plane"
I think its pretty safe to say that most people no longer use the term to offend.

Now if Rolex or anyone else is offended by it. That is on them. They are choosing to be offended by it because to offend wasn't the intent.
and they very well know it wasn't the intent.
Therefore Not only are they letting the word have power by being offended They are choosing to be offended.

And its not like anyone is saying "Damn filthy Jap" where the intent is obvious.

Or like spic, or the N word.
Where you can be pretty sure that if they are used to you. the person is either joking and busting your chops. or is intentionally trying to offend you.

Its a pretty safe bet when someone these days isn't saying it in any other way. then as an abbreviation For Japanese.

Yea, maybe in the past is was used in a derogatory manner. But today. Not so much.

Now If I can move past and remove the power of the words used on me to intentionally offend me by not allowing myself to be offended.
Then others can move past a term where these days in most part no offence is meant.
Maybe it would be better to realize that unless the word is supported by other words that would indicate its derogatory intent. It probably isn't intended in a derogatory manner.

For example. If I were to say. "I'm flying/He's flying a Jap plane"
I am simply stating the person in question is flying a Japanese plane.
In no way shape or form am I saying it to be derogatory or offensive.

But If I were to say "That damn Jap" Then ok now Im attacking. Now I am trying to offend. Then I can almost buy into someone being upset.

As for me. You can search the threads till your blue in the face and you will have one hell of a time finding one where I have called anyone anything resembling a racial slur.
In this one I have been speaking in generalizations and have included myself in those generalizations to make a point.

Only we can give the words power.
And only we can remove the power of those words.
By not bothering to be offended. We have power over the words.
by being offended over such silliness.
we allow the words have power over us.
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #158 on: September 15, 2007, 01:05:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
hey Drediock, i have slightly modified your hypothesis if you would humour me.


 


so what now?

do you just say 'yea, so?' again?


Yup. Although me being a smartarse would probably end up correcting your definition by adding a few things you left out
and so on and so forth.

In the end you will be the one frustrated,offended and pissed off because Im not getting offended and pissed off.

Now. try and say it aint true LOL
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline B@tfinkV

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« Reply #159 on: September 15, 2007, 01:46:17 AM »
:lol good answer, and i already follow this kind of logic in my life when i can.

i expect that due to our security about who we are and where we have come from enables that usefull trait, perhaps many indivduals and even entire nations don't have that peace of mind to begin with.

the beauty of your solution Drediock, is that any one who reads and understands it cannot deny that it works. but it requires a change of mind set on such a global scale that it would be an impossible idea to convey to every human alive.
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Offline kj714

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« Reply #160 on: September 15, 2007, 02:02:40 AM »
Don't you think the eunuchs and trans-gendered among us might blush at the term "castrati"? Perhaps a "gifted" player logs off in shame when the LTARS start getting abused on Ch. 200? I won't even mention the pitiful victims of their own poor judgement who have to continually watch the word "HO" flash across the screen a dozen times a minute, as if their self esteem wasn't already non-existent.

Of all the things to be concerned about, this seems pretty trivial.

Offline Dutchie

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« Reply #161 on: September 15, 2007, 02:02:43 AM »
And what a boring place this will become when none get offended anymore :confused:

Offline Murdr

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« Reply #162 on: September 15, 2007, 02:56:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Bucking the establishment and sticking it to the man??
Where the hell did that come from?

That's easy...You are on an anti-PC rap on the basis that you believe the word in question does not affect enough people to qualify as being offensive.  Appearently the n word and several other examples still qualifies as a slur, but this other one has lost its slur status.  So everyone should follow your lead and use it freely.  After all, it must no longer be a slur because it's kind of obscure compared to the list of others.  At least it has not been one in your experience.  Heck since your experience is tapped into the entire English speaking world, you must be right.

Oh, wait.  That's what the PC crowd does isn't it?  They arbitrarily decide what common term is now considered offensive.  We just need to do the opposite, and declare what offensive terms, are cleared to return 'use in mixed company' status.  What word is next on the adjenda that I can start to use freely?

Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
This has nothing to do with being "PC".  I detest that term as well.  It has everything to do with being respectful and mindful of being part of an international community.


That's the third reply to the thread.  What is so hard about shrugging and saying "When in Rome...."?  Nothing is hard about it...Unless you're just "offended" at the thought of it.

Offline Rolex

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« Reply #163 on: September 15, 2007, 05:26:22 AM »
You don't offend me at all, DREDIOCK. Normal people, including the Japanese I know in the game and on vox, understand that not everyone intends offense, but there are some that do.

Kermit and a few others don't offend me either. They are an embarrassment, but I'm not offended. They (and even you) could simply type jp or JP and this topic would go away, but no. They won't do that because we could go back to enjoying the game and not be an audience for their anti-social behavior. Games are platforms for their antisocial or passive-aggressive behavior, not places for fun. Of course, they don't recognize this in themselves.

They'll deny to the hilt, or come up with twisted reasoning, but continue provoking people and hope they can create some offense from their coy language so they can innocently say "Who, me?" then share their high school philosophy with all of us until we squelch them.

It's just like the other social anomalies - the teenagers and infrequent troublemakers who come and go in the game just to throw out some racial epithets, hoping to provoke a response. There aren't that many of them, but the passive-aggressive ones are smart and you know what they say about bigots... it's the smart ones that are most dangerous.

I think this thread ran its course long ago. Here's hoping for a lock.

Offline B3YT

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« Reply #164 on: September 15, 2007, 07:44:56 AM »
did ANYONE read my reply  ?

as i said there is a car parts importer in JAPAN , owned by a Japanese buisness man who runs a company called JAP IMPORTS. He even sponsors JAP CAR FEST over here in blighty?  

hmm a japanese man , using Jap . hmmmmm........

OH and i'm welsh and therefor don't want to be called taffy ......
As the cleaners say :"once more unto the bleach"