Author Topic: B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie  (Read 7116 times)

Offline Tiger

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 766
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #75 on: October 19, 2007, 10:42:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MajIssue
We stumbled across a raid of 10 Stukas on rhe deck. Result: 10 stukas downed.:aok


You can kill 10 stukas with the tail gun of a SBD if you wanted to.  You could probably take out 3 or 4 with the pilots .45 while riding the silk elevator.

Offline MajIssue

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 806
      • "False Prophets"
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #76 on: October 19, 2007, 01:06:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Airscrew
Ok, before I reply and tell you where to put your homework assignment :rolleyes:    is this your OPINION or do you believe this to be a FACT.


Airscrew:lol

I certainly hope you were not thinking that I am a squeaker... honest disagreemant is good! It stimulates debate. It is telling that when one has a disagreement  that another will lower themselveves to personal attacks and sarcasim... must have hit a nerve eh:rolleyes:

FYI: History Minor, Business Major USC Class of '81, MBA Stanford class of '83 so please spare me the revisionist history lectures, I got enough of THAT in college!

How far are you in Shirers book? only five days left until your report is due!

All kidding aside "The Fall of the Third Republic" is a GREAT book that even a casual student of history will enjoy. I liked it better that Shirers more widely known "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" I highly recommend it as the best narrative of what led up to the collapse of France in 1940! An eye opening account!

By the way... This is completely "tongue in cheek"... :rofl
« Last Edit: October 19, 2007, 01:08:15 PM by MajIssue »
X.O. False Prophets
Altitude is Life
If you keep ignoring "Wife Ack" it will go away.

Offline MajIssue

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 806
      • "False Prophets"
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #77 on: October 19, 2007, 01:10:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VonKost
The B-29 was the most powerful, complex and important bomber built during the war. It's actions and abilities set the stage for the next 50 years of history. (SAC etc..) It was very much a marvel of it's time and had a very significant contribution to the war and it's subsequent history.

No non-American or British multi-engine strategic bombers really contributed to changing the course of the war. The Battle of Britian era German bombers did not change the course of the war, (the spits and hurricanes sure did) the Russian multi-engine birds did not really hit thier stride until the arms race after the war. (When they interned the B-29)

The B-29 was important and revolutionary and that is why it should be included as opposed to any of the French craft and any of the other bombers. It's blaringly obvious when you have late model planes that the B-29 is missing.

The only other things that could possibly be considered near as important would be the V2 strategic rockets and the Jets. We already have the Jets, bring on the Superforts!

Von

(edited for spelling)


Good post VonKost! I agree completely
X.O. False Prophets
Altitude is Life
If you keep ignoring "Wife Ack" it will go away.

Offline MajIssue

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 806
      • "False Prophets"
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #78 on: October 19, 2007, 01:16:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tiger
You can kill 10 stukas with the tail gun of a SBD if you wanted to.  You could probably take out 3 or 4 with the pilots .45 while riding the silk elevator.

My point exactly! the early war types are cannon fodder in the LW arenas. If you saw 10 JU87s heading for your base would you NOT kill them? Would you let them through to pork your base out of a misguided sense of mercy?
What would your Kammeraden in GVs think when 10 stukas appeared the their spawn (that you let through) because you felt sorry for the misguided souls that upped an inferior airplane? BTW, those that shoot pilots in parachutes have NO honor (in my humble opinion)!:D

[edited for spelling]
X.O. False Prophets
Altitude is Life
If you keep ignoring "Wife Ack" it will go away.

Offline Masherbrum

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22416
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #79 on: October 20, 2007, 01:49:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
:noid :noid :noid

1st

Bronk
You're Welcome :)
FSO Squad 412th FNVG
http://worldfamousfridaynighters.com/
Co-Founder of DFC

Offline Rino

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8495
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #80 on: October 20, 2007, 03:08:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MajIssue
My point exactly! the early war types are cannon fodder in the LW arenas. If you saw 10 JU87s heading for your base would you NOT kill them? Would you let them through to pork your base out of a misguided sense of mercy?
What would your Kammeraden in GVs think when 10 stukas appeared the their spawn (that you let through) because you felt sorry for the misguided souls that upped an inferior airplane? BTW, those that shoot pilots in parachutes have NO honor (in my humble opinion)!:D

[edited for spelling]



<===has no honor!  :D

Next time ride it in like an aviator :aok
80th FS Headhunters
PHAN
Proud veteran of the Cola Wars

Offline Hien

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 126
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #81 on: October 20, 2007, 04:45:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MajIssue
I looked it up and YES you're right and I'm wrong The TU-4 was an exact copy (including patched battle damage) of a B-29 forced to land in Russa after a raid on Japan.

I see your point, but most of the EW types would get mualed badly in LW arenas. Since the EW arena earely has more that 10-20 players, what would be the benifit of including light bombers that would rarely be flown and instantly get killed whan thay made contact? Here is an illistration of my point: I was flying a 190 A8 as wing with a good stick Monday to improve my fighter skills in the MA, We stumbled across a raid of 10 Stukas on rhe deck. Result: 10 stukas downed.:aok


I hate to say it, but I believe the purpose of Early War Bombers in the Late War Arenas would actually be for slipping through defenses.  Tell me, you see a High Sb-2 Group ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_SB ) that is say, 7,000 feet above you.  And you also see a B-17 group, that is 1,000 feet below you.

Now, I am sorry if I make an assumption.  But going off my logic.  the B-17 is the bigger threat to my base as well as being lower than me.  And depending on my plane (not likely as I fly things coated with .303s, and B-17s can take more .303 rounds than I care to mention, all the while shooting back at me) you probably will get into posistion and hit the B-17.

From what I see, this would probably also be the case of your allies.  For multiple reasons, ranging from easy kill, to bigger threat.  That is not to say that some people will see the SB-2 as the easier kill, and go after it instead, climbing to a bomber never seemed like a smart idea to me, less you did it at an angle, as to set up for an attack.  But that takes time, time you may not have.

But for the sake of reasoning, you let the SB-2 get through, simply because he has a smaller bomb load, and is slower.  Mind you he still may not make it to the base, he may still die horribly to your allies before he can get to his target.  He probably will die after he drops his bombs, but by then his mission has been accomplished.  Hopefully.   But most people would go for the B-17.  And underestimate the little SB-2s that're going through to pork your fighter hangars.  

I am horrificaly bias on this though, I absolutly love the Early War Russian Bombers, I blame IL-2 (call me a dweeb, the game is awesome, and I can't wait for a patch so I can fly one of my beloved bombers. Which by 1946' DVD, will come out... sooner or later, I suspect two weeks.)

I also tend to view Early War Aircraft in the Late War arenas askew, as compared to late war equipment.  Be it true or not, I like to think people in them know what they're doing to some extent.  I don't remember who it was that has it, but they have a Quote about P-40s in their Sig.  They're like a hobo with a crazy eye.  You don't know what they might do.  Not to mention alot of people in the LW arenas have little experience agaisnt Early War Aircraft.  I have had countless people try to outturn my D3A low and slow, when they could simply walk away.

Knowing is, litterally if very cheesy, half the battle.  
(on a side note, I really should make smaller posts. :huh )

Edit: I seem to be wrong, after re-watching the DVD, to get a look at the cockpit of the SB series, it wasn't there.  I am now sad, but one day!  One day I will fly it in a game, on full realism, and I will be happy!
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 05:27:55 AM by Hien »

Offline HAFhr

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #82 on: October 21, 2007, 02:56:00 PM »
Thats a pretty good point you made about AH MA and the Scenarios, I would have to agree that the intent is not historical accuracy.  I do also agree that the foreign plane arsenal is under represented, in thinking, for an early war plane a Swordish would be kindof cool.  It would get owned on a fairly regular basis, but fun to fly I just think it would be cool to slip a torp in at say 10' above the water level.  It'll probably never happen.  Hell, you could up them in a raid like a Stuka.  Just thinking...

Offline Motherland

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8110
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #83 on: October 21, 2007, 04:13:19 PM »
I love Stukas. Fly em all the time. Not really able to stand up against fighters, but they are great jabo birds. If only we had a D5, it would be even more useful (force overshoot, easy to do in the slow stuka, and then blast the enemy with 20mms) or a G2  (AP cannons under the wings).

Offline Dream Child

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 256
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #84 on: October 22, 2007, 08:44:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Squire

...oh and a history lesson for your precious B-29. Sitting down? good.

It couldnt hit jack-s*** over Japan in 1945, so they went to LOW ALT AREA BOMBING with INCINDIERIES, at NIGHT, by order of Gen. Curtis Lemay in March 1945 against Tokyo.


Talk about not knowing history. The B-29's had a tough time hitting stuff over Japan because of the JET STREAM, and it's 100++ knots wind speed. Perhaps some quick reading up on the subject will help you.

http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/The-Discovery-of-the-Jet-Stream.htm

http://www.crystalinks.com/jetstream.html

Offline Stoney74

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1439
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #85 on: October 22, 2007, 11:33:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rich46yo
I think the bottom line is that Americans made the best all around bombers in WW-ll.


Helps when you never have to worry about your R&D department getting bombed on a daily basis...

B-29 has a place in this game simply because it was an aircraft in WWII.  But, there are quite a few others that, while not ultimately as historically significant (and I'm speaking of two days in August here), are much more tactically significant to many other theaters of the war.

Offline MajIssue

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 806
      • "False Prophets"
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #86 on: October 23, 2007, 01:48:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hien
I hate to say it, but I believe the purpose of Early War Bombers in the Late War Arenas would actually be for slipping through defenses.  Tell me, you see a High Sb-2 Group ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_SB ) that is say, 7,000 feet above you.  And you also see a B-17 group, that is 1,000 feet below you.

Now, I am sorry if I make an assumption.  But going off my logic.  the B-17 is the bigger threat to my base as well as being lower than me.  And depending on my plane (not likely as I fly things coated with .303s, and B-17s can take more .303 rounds than I care to mention, all the while shooting back at me) you probably will get into posistion and hit the B-17.

From what I see, this would probably also be the case of your allies.  For multiple reasons, ranging from easy kill, to bigger threat.  That is not to say that some people will see the SB-2 as the easier kill, and go after it instead, climbing to a bomber never seemed like a smart idea to me, less you did it at an angle, as to set up for an attack.  But that takes time, time you may not have.

But for the sake of reasoning, you let the SB-2 get through, simply because he has a smaller bomb load, and is slower.  Mind you he still may not make it to the base, he may still die horribly to your allies before he can get to his target.  He probably will die after he drops his bombs, but by then his mission has been accomplished.  Hopefully.   But most people would go for the B-17.  And underestimate the little SB-2s that're going through to pork your fighter hangars.  

I am horrificaly bias on this though, I absolutly love the Early War Russian Bombers, I blame IL-2 (call me a dweeb, the game is awesome, and I can't wait for a patch so I can fly one of my beloved bombers. Which by 1946' DVD, will come out... sooner or later, I suspect two weeks.)

I also tend to view Early War Aircraft in the Late War arenas askew, as compared to late war equipment.  Be it true or not, I like to think people in them know what they're doing to some extent.  I don't remember who it was that has it, but they have a Quote about P-40s in their Sig.  They're like a hobo with a crazy eye.  You don't know what they might do.  Not to mention alot of people in the LW arenas have little experience agaisnt Early War Aircraft.  I have had countless people try to outturn my D3A low and slow, when they could simply walk away.

Knowing is, litterally if very cheesy, half the battle.  
(on a side note, I really should make smaller posts. :huh )

Edit: I seem to be wrong, after re-watching the DVD, to get a look at the cockpit of the SB series, it wasn't there.  I am now sad, but one day!  One day I will fly it in a game, on full realism, and I will be happy!


When you're right... YOU'RE RIGHT! but givin the level of participation in the LW vs early/mid war arenas, what rides would gey more usage? I would think that a 29 (perked) would. The heavy price would discourage it's use as a low level tank killer (like lancs are all too often).
Maybe having some of the pre 1943 bombers available ONLY in EW and MW arenas would be a win-win... increase interest in the under used arenas by having rides not available in the LW! And give the fans of some of the more obscure types a chance to fly them in combat!
X.O. False Prophets
Altitude is Life
If you keep ignoring "Wife Ack" it will go away.

Offline MajIssue

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 806
      • "False Prophets"
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #87 on: October 23, 2007, 01:50:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rino
<===has no honor!  :D

Next time ride it in like an aviator :aok


lol
X.O. False Prophets
Altitude is Life
If you keep ignoring "Wife Ack" it will go away.

Offline Hien

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 126
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #88 on: October 23, 2007, 04:40:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MajIssue
When you're right... YOU'RE RIGHT! but givin the level of participation in the LW vs early/mid war arenas, what rides would gey more usage? I would think that a 29 (perked) would. The heavy price would discourage it's use as a low level tank killer (like lancs are all too often).
Maybe having some of the pre 1943 bombers available ONLY in EW and MW arenas would be a win-win... increase interest in the under used arenas by having rides not available in the LW! And give the fans of some of the more obscure types a chance to fly them in combat!


Hehe, low level Lancs.   That reminds me of the summer of 06', when I first started playing Warbirds (And then Fighter Fail, and then this!).  I was far from a good pilot (and still am), and thusly I drove alot of tanks around...  Low level Ju-52... I was at his like... 9.  And I fired a T-34 shell right into its tail as it flew by.  I wonder if he ever knew what happened...  That was alot of fun.  

But in all seriousness, I do think it would be a given that it's perked.  I mean, really, that big of a bomb load, and the option to triple it is just insane.   Not to mention that if you're up high enough, and good enough, you probably won't use all your bombs on the first pass.  You could (Although, I find it to be... unsafe) turn back around and do another pass.  I think it would just be easier in something that fast/high to make two bases your target.   Line up from a distance, and just knock the crap out of two bases.  It's not like you don't have the payload.  :aok

Heh, if I remember correctly the SB-2 was outdated by the time the war started.  Even in Early War it would probably be a huuuuge target.  So why not put it in late too, I mean, really.  

Guy A:"Low Sb-2!"
Guy B:"... Are you kidding?  I upped to fight, not watch some plane catch fire and break into pieces when I point my sights at it, nevermind pull the trigger."
Guy A:"It could be worse...*chuckles* I mean, atleast we aren't quite... twice as fast as it is..."
Guy C:"Dangit, guys.  It just porked Ord."
Guy A & B:"Fail."

I can see it now.

Offline Rich46yo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7358
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #89 on: October 23, 2007, 05:08:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stoney74
Helps when you never have to worry about your R&D department getting bombed on a daily basis...

B-29 has a place in this game simply because it was an aircraft in WWII.  But, there are quite a few others that, while not ultimately as historically significant (and I'm speaking of two days in August here), are much more tactically significant to many other theaters of the war.


                  Respectfully I dont think bombing German R&D did much of anything, if in fact we even did bomb it. The Luftwaffe simple went in other directions with their bomber development and never seriously developed strategic bombers. They geared up to fight a European war in the air, not a strategic one. Even their one strategic bomber, had it made it off the drawing boards, would have had very little impact on the war.

               America, on the other hand, had almost unlimited resources and an industrial base out of the reach of the enemy.

              What the Germans did build, bomber-wise, they built pretty good. They designed some very good 2 engined bombers. I'd love to see the HE-111, both the bomber and the transport, in AH.

              The B-29 operated against the Japanese for more then a year and flew many, many missions. Some of which were more destructive then either the A-bomb attacks. I believe the B-29 changed the face of air warfare more then any other aircraft in WW-ll.

                         Most players in this game are sitting on lots of unused bomber perks. The B-29 would be a terrific perk for everyone.
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"