General Climate Discussion

[indy007]

That Greenland ice sheet just grew to something like 50cm thick in the same place Al Gore jumped up and declared was disappearing and the sign of the end times.

Funny stuff.

[lazs2]

hortlund..  of course it is getting warmer.. no one knows how much and no one knows why and no one knows when it will get colder.. the suns activity has slowed tho so it will get colder soon.

in the meantime...  why go all drama queen on us?   the warming must be slight if you go by hurricanes.. we have had real mild seasons.   What has it harmed?

I had asked you.. what is the harm of this natural and pleasant warm period we are experiencing?   You give us a pic of a hurricane..   we have always had hurricanes.   If that is the worst thing this pleasant warm spell brings then I for one am a happy man.

Face it..  nothing bad is happening..  nothing bad next year will happen or the year after..  it will get colder tho eventually.. enjoy the warmth while you can.

lazs

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by lazs2


moray uses his great aunt and one place to show how the weather has gotten strange... beet and angus use greenland as proof and then say no warming in the US is "local"  but greenland somehow is.. the universe.



lazs

I could use alot more, sir.. and have.. you just ignore the facts

[lazs2]

and moray.. your stupidity and desire above all else to look good and make me look bad are noted.

We are not talking about a 30 degree increase in temp..  we are talking about the 2 degrees that is about what the margin of error is.   I have also said that within this margin and the normal fluctuation of global temp..

A few degrees hotter is much better than a few degrees colder so far as people living through the season.. more people die of cold than heat.   Cold is the real killer.

Now.. are you going to dispute what I said?  that more people die of the cold than the heat?

lazs

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by lazs2
hortlund..  of course it is getting warmer.. no one knows how much and no one knows why and no one knows when it will get colder.. the suns activity has slowed tho so it will get colder soon.


lazs

Again... reality is completely at odds with you...

WASHINGTON - A new solar cycle is under way.  The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said Friday that the first sunspot of a new 11-year cycle has appeared in the sun’s northern hemisphere.

The frequency of sunspots rises and falls during these cycles, and the start of a new cycle indicates they are likely to begin increasing.

The height of solar activity is expected to come in 2011 or 2012.

[Fulmar]

Originally posted by lazs2

A few degrees hotter is much better than a few degrees colder so far as people living through the season.. more people die of cold than heat.   Cold is the real killer.

I think you could argue either way on this.  Yes, both tax the body in either direction.  However, a sustained temperature change in either cold or heat would have a greater effect on vegetation.  I.e. crops would fair and a domino effect from there.

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by lazs2
and moray.. your stupidity and desire above all else to look good and make me look bad are noted.

We are not talking about a 30 degree increase in temp..  we are talking about the 2 degrees that is about what the margin of error is.   I have also said that within this margin and the normal fluctuation of global temp..

A few degrees hotter is much better than a few degrees colder so far as people living through the season.. more people die of cold than heat.   Cold is the real killer.

Now.. are you going to dispute what I said?  that more people die of the cold than the heat?

lazs

I'm sure the people dying right now in the African heat might disagree.

[lazs2]

ah... so you believe that heat kills more people every year than cold?

http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/subject/h/summaries/samerhotvcold.jsp

http://www.globalwarming.org/node/28

http://sharpgary.org/Warm%20Vs%20Cold%20Deaths.html


"They found that mortality was lowest at 14.3-17.3°C in north Finland but at 22.7-25.7°C in Athens. Mean annual heat related mortalities were 304 (95% confidence interval 126 to 482) in North Finland, 445 (59 to 831) in Athens, and 40 (13 to 68) in London. Cold related mortalities were 2457 (1130 to 3786), 2533 (965 to 4101), and 3129 (2319 to 3939) respectively in these regions. Generally - there are from ~5-15X more deaths due to Cold, than due to Warm Events. Populations in Europe have adjusted successfully to mean summer temperatures ranging from 13.5°C to 24.1°C, and can be expected to adjust to global warming predicted for the next half century with little sustained increase in heat related mortality. "

another fun thing is to just do a google for "death toll from cold" and see for yourself how serious cold is compared to heat.

lazs

[lazs2]

and..  from the American meteorology society (are they as smart as you?)

http://ams.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1175/BAMS-86-7-937&ct=1

"ABSTRACT

Studies, public reports, news reports, and Web sites cite a wide range of values associated with deaths resulting from excessive heat and excessive cold. For example, in the United States, the National Climatic Data Center's Storm Data statistics of temperature- related deaths are skewed heavily toward heat-related deaths, while the National Center for Health Statistics Compressed Mortality Database indicates the reverse—4 times more people die of “excessive cold” conditions in a given year than of “excessive heat.” "

got any more insights on negros in africa to add?

lazs

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by lazs2
and moray.. your stupidity and desire above all else to look good and make me look bad are noted.

We are not talking about a 30 degree increase in temp..  we are talking about the 2 degrees that is about what the margin of error is.   I have also said that within this margin and the normal fluctuation of global temp..

A few degrees hotter is much better than a few degrees colder so far as people living through the season.. more people die of cold than heat.   Cold is the real killer.

Now.. are you going to dispute what I said?  that more people die of the cold than the heat?

lazs

I laugh that you looked RIGHT PAST the post where I proved your BS about the sun's activity slowing down to be full of sht.

Anyway...
No.. I already said death from cold and heat are two things that you cannot statistically compare.  People in Cold climates die from COLD.  People in Warm climates DIE FROM HEAT.  Hypothetically, the death could be a result of simply more people going to where it was COLD... and therefore you could not compare the two, as they are not equals under the same conditions.  

I do say that heat is more damaging.  If you could put 100 people in each clime, I would guarantee a higher overall mortality in the 110 degrees versus the 50 degrees.

For humans the normal body, or core, temperature is 37 degrees C, with a diurnal variation of plus or minus 0.5 degrees C.  A temperature below 35 degrees C defines the onset of hypothermia.  At 30 degrees C the human body stops generating heat by shivering , and assumes the temperature of the environment; it becomes poikilothermic.  Death from cardiac rhythm disturbances (ventricular arrhythmia) can occur at any time.  On the other hand, a temperature above 38 degrees C at rest is considered fever, unless it has been caused by exercise or heat exposure.  During sustained heavy exercise, body temperature may reach 40 degrees C.  However temperatures above 41 degrees C cause heatstroke, which may be fatal.  The death rate approaches 100% when the temperature reaches 44 degrees C.  Thus, the rangee of body temperatures tolerable for human life is astonishingly narrow, approximately 30 to 41 degrees C, on the absolute scale a variance of only 3.5%

-Biology of Human Survival

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by lazs2
and moray.. your stupidity and desire above all else to look good and make me look bad are noted.


lazs

Actually. it's my desire to make your repetitive false facts be known.  I don't care about you.... you're a lost old man in a cabin on a hill.  The world passed you by a long time ago.  You employ the 4 year old's method of debate... repeat repeat repeat until people just agree to shut you up.  I won't be that person.  Your opinion is yours and you can keep it...

 I will stand up and make sure it is known you are inconsistent, and that your "facts" are blatant repetitive falsehoods, that are easily debunked.

[lazs2]

moray.. again.. you accuse me of what you do.

You are being myopic.   climate.. global or otherwise... kills more with heat than cold.  I thought the topic was about real world climate and real world results not extremes..

the changes we are talking about are not lab results but real world.. people in hot climes get into the shade or turn on the airconditioner.. people in cold climes try to get warm.  the cold kills em more than the heat.

Read the links..  cold IS killing more people and always has.   This pleasant warm spell is not killing people like you claim.. negros in africa aside.

I showed you the proof.. you can do what you want with it.  

I will concede that the link you quoted is correct but it is not real world and has nothing to do with the subject of death by climate change.

Real world... more people.. 4-5 times as many.... die from cold than heat.

This pleasant and natural warm period we are having is saving lives.

lazs

[lazs2]

and... I did miss the post about the suns activity slowing being bs.. if that is true then temps will continue to get higher till it slows..  it is for sure due to slow if you follow the cycles.. show me again where you seen that.

This seems odd tho since earlier the suns activity was said to not be a factor and to "prove" it.. the alarmists here said... and linked... that the suns activity had slowed for 17 years now..   I had said at the time that suns activity was complex and involved solar winds and such but....

There you have it.. you can't have it both ways.. if it is the sun then we are right back to.... ITS THE SUN STUPID.

If not.. then.. time will tell..

If you have ever proved anything that I have said was wrong..  then I have to say I am sorry but I missed it..  All I recall is you declaring how much more educated you are so therefore.. you are right and then pretty much calling yourself triumphant based on (as yet unnamed) experience in the global climate field.

I know I have not been impressed with your simple bluster technique.

lazs

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by lazs2
moray.. again.. you accuse me of what you do.

You are being myopic.   climate.. global or otherwise... kills more with heat than cold.  I thought the topic was about real world climate and real world results not extremes..
  I will concede that the link you quoted is correct but it is not real world and has nothing to do with the subject of death by climate change.



lazs

Lazs... Extremes are what kills people.

[lazs2]

moray.. more people die in the cold than in the heat.  why are you not grasping that.

lazs