General Climate Discussion

[lazs2]

moray.. this is not new by any means..  many studies have been done on it and say essentially what you have said.. the degree is not clear tho.

there are peer reviewed papers out there already.    There is no doubt that longer growing seasons are better for yeild.

Yeild is up.. the worst I have heard is that the rate of rise of yield is not as high as expected.

lazs

[indy007]

Can't believe this threadnaught continues to roll on...

Here's a novel idea.

Build some cheap greenhouses, and test it yourself.

I've found higher co2 levels increase yield. 500ppm gave me an 18% growth increase in the same period of time as plants in an identical rig, using cloned plants, without the co2.

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by john9001
MORAY37


do your "scientists" do anything besides publish peer review papers and collect government grants?

Hey, without those grants I never woulda been able to afford my 1998 Civic... so back off!  

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by indy007
Can't believe this threadnaught continues to roll on...

Here's a novel idea.

Build some cheap greenhouses, and test it yourself.

I've found higher co2 levels increase yield. 500ppm gave me an 18% growth increase in the same period of time as plants in an identical rig, using cloned plants, without the co2.

Yeah I've heard the same... This paper really turned my head though.  The growth increase is in the initial stage of stem formation... and net yield still goes down after a margin.  It will be interesting to see how it pans out.  The levels they tested at were just above 500ppm... so I don't know if that is the mitigating facto or not.  I will post more about it in the future.

[indy007]

Never gone past 500ppm, and eventually scaled back to 300ppm once the nearbye paintball shop closed and it became a hassle to fill 20oz tanks.

Eventually I'm going to have to switch to the freakishly heavy cylinders and run steel braided hose around the house. Will eventually beat dropping tablets into the fish tanks... and I can setup a soda/beer tap... mmmmm

Everything I grow is done aeroponically with scratch-built bits, so I geuss the next step is probably to try and introduce co2 directly into root zone, which I haven't done yet. No clue if that'll help out any, but that's an experiment for another day.

Either way, it's a good feeling heading to my little garden and pulling up a bunch of Thyme & Basil, and taking it straight to the kitchen to cook with. Doesn't get fresher & tastier than that

[Sabre]

Originally posted by MORAY37
And those government grants got you most of the things you take for granted every day, sir.

Nope.  The overwhelming majority of innovation and invention in the US is market driven, as is the vast majority of spending on research and development.

I liked the "threadnaught" comment by indy:aok .  Totally amazed that this thread's life continues to roll on.

[BiGBMAW]

roots do not want co2..they want O2...now the foliage wants co2

the reason why Hydro setups do so wells is your giving the roots great access to oxygen...not suffocating them in clay-soil mixes...or starving them by drowning in water

[BiGBMAW]

introduce an aerator to your nutrient mixture(water)...like an air stone and a fish pump..Big Difference

[Angus]

Moray,- these tests actually are against farming practice results, and there is a lot of experience behind that.
I speak of my homeland only in terms of greenhouse growing, so in the equation are plants like cucumbers and tomatoes, etc etc, many short lived, the humidity is regulated, but is high, the temperature is high, and the daylight exposure is sometimes as far as around the clock.
(Now let us realize that on this thread we are dealing with people that have debated carbon binding of vegetation as well as the function of greenhouse effect, so this is all a tad funny).
Anyway, up here the Greenhouse farmers apply co2 as a growth enhancerer. Well, they used too.
And Lazs, as a contrary to what you claim, crops have NOT gone up, but down. TOTAL crops have gone up, while crops pr. square have gone down.
(Well, I get the farming news through the mailbox, and BTW, this is a worldwide figure).
And BIGBMAW, - Oxygen, or actually just air is necessary for good soil break-down.
Absolute absence of air + lots of carbon = pH problems.

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by Angus
Moray,- these tests actually are against farming practice results, and there is a lot of experience behind that.
.

I'm not saying they aren't...that's what I found surprising, trust me.  I would go with "farm knowledge" in most cases on this....and I thought conventional wisdom would bear out that the uptake of CO2 and conversion of it into metabolic products would support greater net growth.  

This study seems to find that plants stop or put a severe restriction on synthesis of Chorophyll A and B once levels of CO2 rise past a certain level.... (I really wish I could post exact numbers here) and revert to a straight respiration pathway.... They also apparently stop the storage of nutrients for later use, yielding a net decrease in the nutrients "available for secondary consumption". (ie. "Edible nutrients")

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by BiGBMAW
roots do not want co2..they want O2...now the foliage wants co2

the reason why Hydro setups do so wells is your giving the roots great access to oxygen...not suffocating them in clay-soil mixes...or starving them by drowning in water

Hey BigBMAW...now how would you possibly know all that?

Got a little "operation" running in the attic?

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Angus
Todays climate change is a global shift totalling as warming.  

And what about tomorrow`s? Nothing to go on there because it is not known and can`t be predicted.

Do you have allergy for the letters G & W?

No, but you should be.

If this carries on (for me it would be nice if it carried on a little more and then stopped, say in 10 years ), our children and/or grandchilfren are going to see and feel a vlimate that was never so in the story of our last 7000 years or so, - I am only counting backwards to civilization there.
Actually the arctic change might be unique for very much longer time.

And there you have it................IF and MIGHT all rolled up in a neat package.


 IF a rabbit had wings it`s arse might not hit the ground so much.

[Angus]

Well IF you drop a hand grenade, and MAYBE walk away 5 yards, you MIGHT die.
So I guess it's all okay

[Angus]

And more:
"And what about tomorrow`s? Nothing to go on there because it is not known and can`t be predicted."

I looked at the weather forecast, cursed, closed tractor windows, made sure all stable doors were closed, for the forecast was a storm. They seem to be arriving in big package deals, well som GW alarmist said they would.
And...Storm came allright.
Have you ever tried a dice against the weather forecast?

Since it is a hobby of mine to ponder on the climate (sort of comes automatically when your business relies on it), I predict: SPRING IN THE SPRINGTIME! Okay, the ground will thaw quickly this year, and field work will start in March. We will have a wetter spring than last year. So will June be, as well as slightly cooler.
Remind me in July to look over this, for we MIGHT POSSIBLY both be alive.

[indy007]

Originally posted by BiGBMAW
introduce an aerator to your nutrient mixture(water)...like an air stone and a fish pump..Big Difference

Way ahead on that step. I actually got a bunch of cheap ultrasonic foggers, so even when the pump for the mist nozzles isn't running, there's a nutrient rich fog hovering in the root zone, in addition to the air pump running a 12" stone in each container.

Had good luck finding them at a store in the china-town part of Houston for cheap. The commercial, multi-head versions can get pretty expensive fast.

Didn't think co2 would help in the root zone... but I've been getting pretty bored with my little setups.