General Climate Discussion

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Hortlund

But that line before 1800  is the natural cycle and it's mechanisms, and by your own testimony, that is irrelevant.  So once again, how do you know that we are changing anything?

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
But that line before 100 years ago is the natural cycle and it's mechanisms, and by your own testimony, that is irrelevant.  So once again, how do you know that we are changing anything?

Notice any difference in that line? Spot the difference between pre-industrial age and now?

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Hortlund
Notice any difference in that line? Spot the difference between pre-industrial age and now?

As soon as you admit that we must compare the data to a relevant baseline I will.  

But as you say, "It is completely irrelevant what the vast majority of the atmosphere consists of, it is completely irrelevant that the oceans send huge amounts of water vapor into the atmosphere, those are all part of the natural cycle." so by your definition, the line before 1800, which is the line of natural cycle, cannot be used in our discussion.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
As soon as you admit that we must compare the data to a relevant baseline I will.  

But as you say, "It is completely irrelevant what the vast majority of the atmosphere consists of, it is completely irrelevant that the oceans send huge amounts of water vapor into the atmosphere, those are all part of the natural cycle." so by your definition, the line before 1800, which is the line of natural cycle, cannot be used in our discussion.

[Holden McGroin]

So does mean we can discuss natural data or is it still irrelevant?

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Ok so we will outlaw Bean comsumption.

Problem solved LOL

Lightning strikes too?

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
Lightning strikes too?

Ban em.
Make a law against them.

[Angus]

Light spirited as it is, you can't.
But it's possible to lock you up though

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Angus
Light spirited as it is, you can't.

I don`t know why you would say that. You can ban and make laws against anything. Just because it won`t work has never stood in the way before.
If you are going to back something that will screw yourself, you might as well go for the gold.

Old saying: Anyone can pee on the floor, but it takes a real hero to take a crap on the ceiling.

[lazs2]

oh.. now this is getting rich!!!

do a search for water vapor and greenhouse gas.. all the articles will tell you that water vapor is the biggest and that it is not affected by man.   the lefty ones will tell you how much more important co2 is.

Not one of these scientists.. not the UN report... nada.. say that man is changing water vapor... if you do a search you will find only one article by one scientist that says that we may be changing water vapor  you will find hundreds that say we can't... it balances itself.   You will even find a couple that say that the meteorite in russia in 1906 changed the amount of water vapor in our atmosphere.

So where are the numbers and charts to dazzle us peasants hortlund?   Do you really think that we are changing water vapor?

May be.... so far tho.. no one is saying that or providing data on how much...  

But say we are..  What would we have to do to stop it?   Water vapor credits?   Maybe a movie?   get the UN to dummy up the old report or just say......

"never mind.. we were wrong on the co2 thing... it is water vapor but it is still your fault"

LOL... no matter what.. it is our fault I guess.   but so far.. we have no solutions do we?   If we all slit our throats.. the earth would still heat and cool.. another meteorite could hit a week after we all suicided...

So what is the solution to the whole "man made water vapor" catastrohe?

and..  have you finally given up on the c02 as the world ender scenario?

It was getting kinda worn and silly.

lazs

[Angus]

When you start your biggest bike Lazs, it is not the force of your hand that does it really, but turning the key or slamming down the pedal is enough to get other and much stronger things going. That is the theory behind CO2's effect. If it works itself into accelerated warming then you enter the doomsday zone. Not what I belive in, but I rather put my money on quite a naughty climate. Anyway, the doomsday scene,  In one culture, opening Pandora's box. In another releasing the wolf named Fenrir.

[Sabre]

An interesting take on the genesis of the MMGW scare...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml;jsessionid=0GN3K55AD1OR1QFIQMFSFFWAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/earth/2007/11/04/eaclimate104.xml

BTW, I think this thread has set a personal record for the most replies to one started by me.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by lazs2
  Maybe a movie?  

lazs

LMAO

Gore`s next option.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by lazs2
Do you really think that we are changing water vapor?

Wtf, just how stupid are you anyway? I just explained to you how water vapor is created during fossil fuel combustion, and here you are completely ignoring that post and asking me again to explain how man is creating water vapor? You are one stupid mother f ucker.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by lazs2

and..  have you finally given up on the c02 as the world ender scenario?

It was getting kinda worn and silly.

lazs

The atmosphere consists of a mix of gasses, the balance of these gasses determines how much heat from the sun that will be trapped in the atmosphere. The amount of clouds and ice also determines how much heat from the sun that will bounce back into space.

What we are doing is changing the balance of gas in the atmosphere, this change causes more heat to be trapped, and the temperature rises. As the temperature rises, the oceans emit more water vapor into the atmosphere, changing the balance yet more. As the temperature rises the ices melt, making the reflective surface smaller, thus letting more heat get trapped in the atmosphere. As the temperature rises, areas that were once frozen melts, and these melting areas release more gas into the atmosphere, methane, which is a very very evil greenhouse gas...causing yet more heat to be trapped in the atmosphere.

All of this is basic science, and it is plain for everyone with half a brain to see. Yet you guys sit there, trying to shove your heads deeper into the sand (did I say sand? I meant "your a ss").

It is completely irrelevant what the vast majority of the atmosphere consists of, it is completely irrelevant that the oceans send huge amounts of water vapor into the atmosphere, those are all part of the natural cycle. What IS relevant is that MAN is changing the balance of those gasses in the atmosphere, and because of that, we are changing the amount of heat trapped in the atmosphere.
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But you wont understand that, because you dont WANT to understand that. How difficult it is to make a man understand something, when his salary or his percieved lifestyle depends on him not understanding it.