Perk Changes

[Karnak]

Blooz,

What you say is valid in the real world, not in AH.

Back when the Spit XIV was 60 perks I drug an La-7 up from 5,000ft to 25,000ft with it.  It took a long time, but he wanted to kill the perk plane.  Once at 25,000ft I engaged and he very rapidly realized what the outcome of the fight was going to be.  He put the nose down and got the hell out before I could get a good shot on him.  I landed one round from long range, probably a .303.

It is much easier to dive than to climb and a Spit XIV that has oponents above it loses that advantage as climbing makes you a slow target to enemies above you.


Please explain, in the context of AH (a combat game, not a mission game), what makes the Spit XIV worth perks but not the La-7 or Spit XVI?

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by Blooz
Quoted:

<>

You really don't understand tactics, do you.

The ability to go where the enemy can't go, to be able to fight where the enemy can't fight gives you a huge advantage.

At only 15k the Spit 14 is 15mph faster and climbs 600fpm faster than La7 (and that's without using WEP!)

I actually do understand tactics.  What I don't understand is how you fight someone where they can't go.

If you want to climb to 23K and play with yourself be my guest.  

Have you ever wondered why through your years of playing AH you've rarely exceeded 0.33-0.5 K/S?  Think it might have something to do with your "tactics"?

[Snubby]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
I actually do understand tactics.  What I don't understand is how you fight someone where they can't go.

If you want to climb to 23K and play with yourself be my guest.  

Have you ever wondered why through your years of playing AH you've rarely exceeded 0.33-0.5 K/S?  Think it might have something to do with your "tactics"?

what he said..

[Blooz]

I've explained it the best I can.

Maybe someone else can draw you cartoons so you can understand it?

The Spit14 is perked because it so dominates the other planes. The LA7 and the Spit16 can't compete with it in it's realm.

[Snubby]

Originally posted by Blooz
I've explained it the best I can.

Maybe someone else can draw you cartoons so you can understand it?

The Spit14 is perked because it so dominates the other planes. The LA7 and the Spit16 can't compete with it in it's realm.

We've explained as best WE can,,,  the spit14 dominated the other planes.. but only in a scenario that ALMOST NEVER OCCURS IN AH

it does no good that it is amazingly lethal and 2nd to none at super high altitude,,  BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING TO SHOOT AT UP THERE..

in AH its all about the sub 10k fight usually among multiple planes..  

good low level speed, heavy hitting for the quick kill before another baddy saddles up on you, and and maneuverability to out turn the guys you can out run.. the LA7 has all of these attributes.  so it is almost purpose built for the kinda of fights you see in AH..

the spit14 on the other hand its an answer.. without a question..   its purpose built for a type of action that simply just doesent exist in AH.  it doesent matter how good it is above 20k.. because nobody is up there to fight it.

[Blooz]

My idea of success and your idea of success are opposites , I guess.

For you success is getting kills, I guess. To do that you run into the solid wall of red icons and dive right in trying to get a few kills before you die.

For me it's the successful completion of the mission with minimal casualties. Lot's of times you complete a mission without getting any kills. Sometimes you get lots of kills. Sometimes everyone comes home and sometimes not.

Flying Spit14's correctly will get you more kills and less casualties because of their performance. They are faster, climb better and turn tighter than most other planes in the game. So much so, that they need to be limited.

Same story as if we were talking about the ME262, Tempest or F4U-4. Fly them where they shine and they are tough to beat. Fly them where they are weak and you pay up.

[Snubby]

Originally posted by Blooz
My idea of success and your idea of success are opposites , I guess.

For you success is getting kills, I guess. To do that you run into the solid wall of red icons and dive right in trying to get a few kills before you die.

Neg, I seldom enter a furball, and I usually return home from my sorties.

For me it's the successful completion of the mission with minimal casualties. Lot's of times you complete a mission without getting any kills. Sometimes you get lots of kills. Sometimes everyone comes home and sometimes not.

agreed, and flying at 20+ K in AH will virtually guarantee you will complete your "mission" as you will not likely encounter any other aircraft.

Flying Spit14's correctly will get you more kills and less casualties because of their performance. They are faster, climb better and turn tighter than most other planes in the game. So much so, that they need to be limited.

any plane flown correctly will get more kills and less casualties.

Same story as if we were talking about the ME262, Tempest or F4U-4. Fly them where they shine and they are tough to beat. Fly them where they are weak and you pay up.

You still cant seem to get it though your head that the ability to MAKE USE of the plane is important if not more so than its actually abilities..   up super high the 14 is awsome.. but there is nothing up there to fight.. so its worthless.  a weapon without use, is a useless weapon..

and you cant compare the 14 to the 262 or the Tempest.. or the -4,

the tempest and -4 are astonishing fighters DOWN LOW and and the mid alts, where they can actually be used with a purpose,  thus making them a REAL threat.. the 262, is without question the most lethal anti-bomber weapon in the game, and is untouchable except out of sheer luck.

the 262, temp, and -4 are worth of their perk value, because if you run across  them, you are in trouble should the choose to come at you..

the spitty 14 on the other hand..  pfft, if I see one 10k above me satellite watching.. ill just ignore it..  problem solved, should it try and come after me, it will have to dive lower alts,  where its no better than any other spit..


the in AH the 16 is far better ride than the 14, except in the NON EXISTENT 20+ areas.


EDIT: checking my stats, ive yet to kill, or be killed by a spit14 this tour..  

guess im not looking high enough:lol

[clerick]

If we are talking about perking planes that dominate, the LA7 is a great example.  A quick check of gonzo's fighter comparison shows that the LA is a great match, if not significantly dominant, when compared to the Spit 14 under 13K, where the LA7 was designed to fight.  Compare the Tempest, Spit and LA and you have a trio of planes that are very deadly, but the Tempest and LA are far more deadly at altitudes that realy matter in AH.

I think that the case for perking the LA is a fairly strong one.  Perk the Ponies? I don't think so, there are so many planes out there that dominate it in multiple categories.  I dont think that a plane should be perked because it is popular, perk it because it is significantly overpowering to a majority of the plane set.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by clerick
If we are talking about perking planes that dominate, the LA7 is a great example.  A quick check of gonzo's fighter comparison shows that the LA is a great match, if not significantly dominant, when compared to the Spit 14 under 13K, where the LA7 was designed to fight.  Compare the Tempest, Spit and LA and you have a trio of planes that are very deadly, but the Tempest and LA are far more deadly at altitudes that realy matter in AH.

I think that the case for perking the LA is a fairly strong one.  Perk the Ponies? I don't think so, there are so many planes out there that dominate it in multiple categories.  I dont think that a plane should be perked because it is popular, perk it because it is significantly overpowering to a majority of the plane set.

The La 7 is not dominating the arena in any way, and certainly not more that the pony. See my above compilation of fighter kills and take note that in terms of K/D the La 7 usualy barely makes it into the top 20. Last tour ranked #18 with K/D 1.21. Top non perked fighters were:
- Typhoon 1.58
- Hurricane IIc 1.5
- BF 109K 1.48
- FW 190D9 1.37

If you want to have the LA7 perked, you must perk Pony, Spit XVI, Typhoon, N1K2, 109K4 and many more too.

[Karnak]

Perk Unit Kill Totals this Tour:

Sherman VC has 32734 Kills of All models
All models have 16288 Kills of Sherman VC

Tiger I has 15202 Kills of All models
All models have 4244 Kills of Tiger I

Tempest has 5823 Kills of All models
All models have 937 Kills of Tempest

Me 262 has 3426 Kills of All models
All models have 616 Kills of Me 262

F4U-4 has 3511 Kills of All models
All models have 1204 Kills of F4U-4

Me 163B has 1271 Kills of All models
All models have 238 Kills of Me 163B

Spitfire Mk XIV has 1132 Kills of All models
All models have 949 Kills of Spitfire Mk XIV


Even the restricted Me163 has more kills than the Mk XIV and all of the perk units have much, much better K/D ratios than the Spitfire Mk XIV.  Of all the perk units, only one has a K/D ratio like unperked units, this despite being used more carefully due to its perk price.  Looking at those usage and result numbers I cannot understand how somebody can claim the Spitfire Mk XIV should be perked.

[Lusche]

Well, the Ta 152 lost it's perk status. Maybe the Spit XIV one day too. There's always hope

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by Lusche
Well, the Ta 152 lost it's perk status. Maybe the Spit XIV one day too. There's always hope

Exactly.  The Ta-152, the "other" specialty high alt fighter lost it's perk price.  Why not the XIV then?

Make no mistake, both are fine aircraft, but within the realm where most fighters are actually used in the game they are both average at best.

In fact, I would argue that the Ta-152, due to it's gun package and ability to rip high alt buffs from the sky deserves to be perked more than the Spit XIV.  Even at that, I can see why it lost it's perk price because of it's propensity to radiator damage.  Because of that, both the 190A-8 and the 110G-2 are better suited to buff hunting, neither of which are perked and both, in fact, have very high ENY ratings.

As to the origional post, I don't thing either the La-7 or the P-51 should be perked.  Especially the P-51.

Lusche, The La-7 doesn't carry high K/D or K/S numbers because of all the use by noobs (same with the Spit XVI).  Most "vets" wouldn't be caught dead in one.  If it didn't carry the stigma it does I bet those numbers would sky but that's OK as the noobs need a few decent trainers.

[1redrum]

no matter how uber the airframe it is only as good as the pilot flying it

[Lusche]

Originally posted by BaldEagl


Lusche, The La-7 doesn't carry high K/D or K/S numbers because of all the use by noobs (same with the Spit XVI).  Most "vets" wouldn't be caught dead in one.  If it didn't carry the stigma it does I bet those numbers would sky but that's OK as the noobs need a few decent trainers.

I know - I did ride LA almost exclusively my first 3 tours

[Tiger]

Perk everything made from 1943-on.  Made before Dec 31,1942, leave unperked.