Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?

[john9001]

a metal detector is not going to stop someone like that, when it goes "beep" he will just start shooting.

[RedTop]

It all comes down to what was said before....

Most people couldn't pull the trigger.

Those that can would probably end up in serious trouble.....

And BOTH sides of the gun argument will spin it to make a point.

Good OR bad....CCW is an option.....Crooks that WANT to kill or seriously hurt folks will....and we ALL are up until confronted with them....unable to do anything about it.

Cops wont be there hardly EVER whne they are needed. Aren't enough.

John Wayne types for the most part talk big...until they are in it.

Phaser's post early in the thread was one of the best I have read.

I had a recent episode at my home involving a gun....Trust me that having a gun in your hand....pointing it....is a VERY SCAREY proposition.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Phaser11
That is a hard question.
 I do have a carry permit and would I have fired? It really depends on the situation. There is a fine line between self defense and taking the law into your own hands. If I was with my family or buy my self when that started happening in front of me, yes I would shoot in a heart beat, but If there was a clean way out for my family then I would take it and get them out.
 A permit to carry a gun is just that. It is not a badge nor does it mean that a person carrying a gun “has” to get involved in gun fights. Does it happen, yes we do read about it when a person shoots another somewhere to save the lives of others, but understand this is still a very grey area in many states.

Some questions you might ask your self if you think this might happen and you have a gun.

If I shoot this person, am I going to shoot someone else? I saved the day by killing the shooter, but one of my rounds kill a 6month old baby behind him that I did not see. Can I live knowing that I killed a child?

Whenever you use a gun in self defense you will have to answer for it. It might be clear as to what happened and the local DA will not file charges. The again, if you stay and shoot the person, one of the question you will be asked and have to show (usually at the seine) how were YOU threatened/ Did YOU have a way out? Why did YOU take the law into your own hands?

If you start shooting, will others think you are part of the problem? Will you get shot by the other good person trying to stop the shooter?

Can you live with your self if you duck and run and many others are killed?

This is really not a question you can ask where there is a simple answer. It will be different for everyone you talk to. Most will say, I’ll shoot the guy”. Well they just might, but no plan works out the way you think when the lead is flying.

All you can really do is keep practicing with your gun, Think up shooting scenarios could happen at the places you frequent. Be aware of your surroundings at all times. Keep an eye on the quickest way out. Keep an eye on you family. Also it is very important that you are also a good witness for law enforcement. What were they wearing, color hair, close and stuff like that.

For me, I shoot with my carry about once a month. I pay extra for “frangible” ammunition that when it strikes something hard it breaks up into a fine power to help prevent ricochets.

This is not a perfect answer, because there is none. Everyone will respond as to there own abilities.

If you are witnessing a Felony (some assorted lunatic committing murder, not to mention eight counts), you are JUSTIFIED in ending him.    I would.   I'm not just saying it either.   If I'm found guilty, then so be it, I ended the cowards plans prematurely and minimized his impact.

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by Maverick
Please tell me what the relationship of your post has to a mall shooting? You were not in a mall unaware of the location of the shooter surrounded by panicked people fleeing in all directions.

If you cannot see the commonality  of being in a disadvantaged situation now, then no amount of explaining it to you is going to help.  Start by looking up the word: analogy.

Now tell me how you are going to search a mall with what was it 115 stores

You are so desperate to win this discussion that you are willing to be completely obtuse, aren't you?

If the guy is shooting  a frikking gun in the "mall"  area, how much searching are you going to have to do?  I'm losing patience with you, Maverick.  You are trying to twist the scenario to win a pointless argument, I'll not allow it.

[SteveBailey]

yes we do read about it when a person shoots another somewhere to save the lives of others, but understand this is still a very grey area in many states.

Not grey  in Nebraska.

[shamroc]

Originally posted by RedTop
It all comes down to what was said before....
Most people couldn't pull the trigger.

It's terrifying, no question whatsoever, but I contend that Texans WOULD be more likely to shoot than Most People:

http://www.break.com/index/brave-neighbor-kills-2-robbers-911-call2.html

shamroc

[RedTop]

Texans...yeah I agree with that...simply by nature I guess...no idea really.

[Slash27]

Originally posted by RedTop

I had a recent episode at my home involving a gun....Trust me that having a gun in your hand....pointing it....is a VERY SCAREY proposition.

I had an experience at my home where I honestly thought I was about to shoot someone. Definitely no thoughts of Dirty Harry or John Wayne at the time. Just scared and a sickening feeling I dont ever recall having before or since.

[RedTop]

Exactly!!!!!

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by Slash27
I had an experience at my home where I honestly though I was about to shoot someone. Definitely no thoughts of Dirty Harry or John Wayne at the time. Just scared and a sickening feeling I dont ever recall having before or since.

Bleh, no doubt.  I think killing someone, regardless of the justification, would haunt a sane person for the rest of his/her life, to some degree or other. I'd be just fine without ever having to do that.

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Bingolong
btw

 a SKS can be full auto just like a m1 carbine can and it can hold as big as a clip you can find for it.  They make 50 round clips for it that I know.

http://www.rifletech.com/bullpup002.jpg

No liberal handsomehunk can rub two sticks together and magically make a semi-auto fire arm fully auto.  Hell, even us experienced with fire arms probably won't be successful 4 times out of 5.


Even if we were successful, we aren't really making the gun full auto.  We're just breaking it.  And because we're breaking it, other things will start to break easily.


On top of that, the reliability of most magazines above 30 rounds is questionable at best.

[FrodeMk3]

Ok, this is a question for everyone.

How many potential mass-murders have been thwarted by a carrying CCW holder? Where would you go to look for that info?

Phaser, I believe you answered truthfully, which is somewhat rare anymore. Great post.

However, everyone in the thread's brought up lots of good points, on both sides of the coin.

True, LEO's usually aren't there at the scene of the crime, when it is perpetrated. So, in a sense, the citizen's are on their own. However, as somebody stated, a CCW is a permit to carry a gun, and just that. It does not make the bearer a trained LEO. It does not make the bearer immune to any exception's to the law of whatever state this happens' in. There are many What If's? in this scenario. Every time this happens, there are different circumstances. Maybe a CCW holder can save the day. Maybe he/she will make a situation infinetely worse. That door can swing both ways.

What would I myself do? Don't know. Never had to face it. Very few here can say they have.

[Maverick]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
If you cannot see the commonality  of being in a disadvantaged situation now, then no amount of explaining it to you is going to help.  Start by looking up the word: analogy.


 

You are so desperate to win this discussion that you are willing to be completely obtuse, aren't you?

If the guy is shooting  a frikking gun in the "mall"  area, how much searching are you going to have to do?  I'm losing patience with you, Maverick.  You are trying to twist the scenario to win a pointless argument, I'll not allow it.

No I am not trying to "twist the scenario" at all. I've been talking about the mall shooting situation the entire time. You brought up the other "scenarios". All I did was point out they were irrelevant to the "discussion".  

Yep I really do have a hard time seeing the commonality of you being threatened with a gun by a guy you are facing with as well as a fist fight face to face vs a mall shooting. If you really need to say you are a real bad arse, fine, now exactly what does that have to do with trying to find some one shooting in a crowded mall. If you have not noticed I have not questioned your courage in any of the posts here.

You are welcome to lose your patience all you want, that's your problem not mine nor does it impress me.

[shamroc]

Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Ok, this is a question for everyone.

How many potential mass-murders have been thwarted by a carrying CCW holder? Where would you go to look for that info?

Off the top of my head...

The Utah Trolley Square mall shooting (last year) was tharted by an off-duty police officer who was carrying concealed.  He was at the mall eating lunch with his wife if I remember correctly.

Saved many lives.  Shooter had a shotgun, handgun and a backpack full of ammo.

shamroc

[FrodeMk3]

Originally posted by shamroc
Off the top of my head...

The Utah Trolley Square mall shooting (last year) was tharted by an off-duty police officer who was carrying concealed.  He was at the mall eating lunch with his wife if I remember correctly.

Saved many lives.  Shooter had a shotgun, handgun and a backpack full of ammo.

shamroc

Ok...a trained LEO. Any Off-the-street, simply-have-a-CCW regular Citizens?