Author Topic: Illegals leaving Arizona (Read 4792 times)

texasmom · « **Reply #45 on:** December 24, 2007, 01:47:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by cpxxx
As far as I know it's not a criminal offence to be illegal.

... hence the term "illegal alien."

Maverick · « **Reply #46 on:** December 24, 2007, 01:49:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by cpxxx
You are not comparing like with like. Thieves are criminals. As far as I know it's not a criminal offence to be illegal. If it was the prisons would be full of them. My sister was illegal back in the eighties in New York. She worked damm hard and even paid taxes. I know many like that. I know of some who run businesses, pay their taxes and hire Americans citizens. Are they criminal?

The reality is that America like most western countries needs immigrants. The problem is that unscrupulous employers prefer illegals. Those employers are the cause of the problem.

cpxxx,

The key word here is illegal. Yes it is a violation of criminal law to be here in the USA as an illegal immigrant. You can, and many do, get a hearing on it. Many waive the hearing knowing it just takes time they would use to come right back into the country. Yes they are arrested and held in the Border Patrol holding facilities.

Getting some immigrants is a good thing. Getting rather large numbers of them and especially the ones who don't intend to do anything but rob, burglarize and other criminal acts here is not good.

Tac · « **Reply #47 on:** December 24, 2007, 02:00:04 PM »

CPX,

I dont mean any personal offense but if your sister was here illegally then yes, she was a criminal. Illegal = against the law = criminal. You dont pay your parking ticket you are technically a criminal. You enter private property without permissions you are a criminal. You refuse to leave private property when asked to by the authorities, you are a criminal.

Entering a sovereign nation without permission and remaining in it when it is clear even to non-english speakers that it is against the law (hence the term 'illegal') is a criminal act.

The amazing thing is, its an individual committing a crime against an entire nation not against another individual.

I wonder how she paid taxes as an illegal though. You need a social security number to pay taxes.

Prisons ARE mostly full of illegal aliens if you haven't noticed. Those that commit violent crime and get caught that is. If anyone gets rounded up in an INS sting they get deported rather quickly instead of being thrown in jail..and you know why? because they are foreign citizens and cannot be held in US prisions unless the crime committed is something like rape or murder (and even then most of those get deported which is great..they get to be in their own country's prisons.. US prisons are like a holiday inn in comparison).

That businesses bear blame for it? Sure they do. Hence why the Arizona law is great news. However, just because there is a job open in Arizona is still no excuse whatsoever for an individual to cross a border illegally and reside illegally in a country. That is the sole responsibility of the person committing the crime. Its not like 'oops i found myself one day working for this guy in arizona' you know.. they planned before hand how to enter the US illegally and planned to remain illegal working for people like those until they become eligible for any carebear laws that benefit THEM over the legal aliens and US citizens.

JB88 · « **Reply #48 on:** December 24, 2007, 02:05:12 PM »

what they said.

cpxxx · « **Reply #49 on:** December 24, 2007, 02:31:35 PM »

My sister will be delighted to be described as a criminal:eek: Luckily she is now hiding out back here raising her kids. It is possible to have a social security number and be illegal by the way.

Look you cannot resolve the illegal immigrant problem by treating them as if they were murderers, rapists or thieves. Most just want to work, provide for their families, better themselves. It is insanely difficult to get a green card unless you meet certain standards or are lucky.

We're not just talking about Mexicans here. Many of you would claim Irish heritage and there was a strong tradition of emigration to the USA. No more, the only way in now is to go illegally unless you get lucky with the visa lottery or have some in demand skills. Yet those who go illegally find work, often highly paid work. The same goes for people in most other countries who wish to move to the USA. If there is work available why is it so difficult to get a green card?

Clearly the system needs reform and a good way to start is to stop the employers from hiring illegals. Then legal immigrants or Americans can get those jobs, pay taxes and contribute to the country.

Viewing illegals in simplistic terms as mere criminals contributes nothing to solving the problem.

JB88 · « **Reply #50 on:** December 24, 2007, 02:58:27 PM »

they are criminals. that is not to say that they are all terrible people.

but that also doesn't excuse the flagrant disregard for the law or the people who those laws have been enacted to protect.

this is not an issue of immigration. all americans are immigrants. this is an issue of illegal immigration.

just as breaking and entering is a crime, so is illegal immigration.

she would be in violation of our nations laws.

she makes it harder for people who wish to play by the rules to have an opportunity to do so because we have to spend so much of our national resources combating those who dont want to be bothered with waiting in line or just fighting for a better life back home.

it is also a matter of ideology. you say that your sister was back home now?
oh that's nice. so she came here, took what she could and then kept her allegience elsewhere? i want immigrants who want to stay here. to become americans. to raise americans. legal migrants commit to this aim. illegals do not. (by proxy of thier decision to stay outside of the system)
those who don't want to do that? fine. but be documented and have to renew and be checked regularly. no more hiding in the fringes. guests. not stowaways.

do i think that borders should be open? sure. ideally, i think i should be able to live anywhere in the world that i please. but not under a false pretense and forged documents.

people who want more immigration need to begin thinking in terms of fair exchange. would i want to move to their country? no? why? maybe corruption or civil unrest or lower standard of living...is it easy to live in others countries? nope. most have even harsher laws than we do. so how do i win in this exchange unless i can feel comfortable knowing that the people who i am surrounded by are generally law abiding.

yes. the employers are part of the blame. just as the pusher is part of the drug problem. but that don't excuse the abuser. not one iota.

CHECKERS · « **Reply #51 on:** December 24, 2007, 05:21:48 PM »

Best news I have read in a long time

,Adios MOFo's !

AKIron · « **Reply #52 on:** December 24, 2007, 05:31:44 PM »

Of course the more unsavory illegals probably aren't holding down a job that can be impacted by enforcement of employment laws. Still, it will relieve a lot of pressure on our social infrastructure, well, Arizona's anyhow, for now.

bj229r · « **Reply #53 on:** December 24, 2007, 05:39:00 PM »

Mexican illegals seem to have a VERY high rate of alcoholism, the fewer in this country, the fewer killing innocent people with their unlicensed, uninsured cars

Shamus · « **Reply #54 on:** December 24, 2007, 05:59:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by cpxxx

Clearly the system needs reform and a good way to start is to stop the employers from hiring illegals. Then legal immigrants or Americans can get those jobs, pay taxes and contribute to the country.

Some things are so simple, and you wouldn't have to spend billions on a fence and put us in Fortress America mentality.

shamus

Suave · « **Reply #55 on:** December 24, 2007, 06:59:07 PM »

Heh.. I saw a debate and Giuliani's answer to the illegal immigrant question was to build a fence and institute a national ID card.

bj229r · « **Reply #56 on:** December 24, 2007, 07:25:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Suave
Heh.. I saw a debate and Giuliani's answer to the illegal immigrant question was to build a fence and institute a national ID card.

His attitude before he started running for pres was quite diferent

CptTrips · « **Reply #57 on:** December 24, 2007, 08:32:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by cpxxx
Look you cannot resolve the illegal immigrant problem by treating them as if they were murderers, rapists or thieves. Most just want to work, provide for their families, better themselves. It is insanely difficult to get a green card unless you meet certain standards or are lucky.

cpxxx,

Sorry, but they have intentionally broken our laws and are criminals.

Did she get a SSN lawfully or through document fraud?

Look: bottom line, as simple as I can say it...

It doesn't matter a bit how difficult it is to get a Green Card. Tough. If its too difficult then go elsewhere. Its not our job to make it easy for anyone. We've settled our frontiers. We have no particular need for more immigrants.

If we allow you in, you will jump through every hoop, fill out every document, pay every fee, wait any period we so choose, and IF you are let in, then it is a priviledge you should be thankful for. It is not a right.

If at any time, any of those conditions are unacceptable, then you are free to go elsewhere. Period.

Regards,
Wab

Tac · « **Reply #58 on:** December 25, 2007, 12:18:26 AM »

I am not aware of any method to secure a social security number without receiving clearance from the INS as a resident. You can get a temporary number that is given to you as a work permit while your residence documents are processed but not before submitting your immigration documents.

I *am* a legal immigrant and believe me, coming from Colombia is a hell of a lot harder than if i came from an Euro nation or Mexico or any other south american country. This drug problem has us flagged very heavily.

My entire family went through the immigration process and we did receive our greencards within the year. Were we lucky or did we merely follow the rules? I do not know. Almost every immigrant ive met have had a smooth experience with the INS and some have had to wait a couple of years (given legal temporary status by INS to remain in country) but its worked out fine.

What's real sad is that most people in the US illegally that eventually do try to attain legal status the right way have to leave the US and return.. if they leave the US in a plane or get checked by border patrol that hurts them a lot because it gets flagged in the computer that they exited the country when they had no legal entry permit (or long expired tourist visa) and when they submit their legal paperwork to INS that flag usually causes their applications to be denied or have a buttload of trouble getting it approved.

I dont know your sister's status right now but I do hope she gets her status straightened out. Things might get very unpleasant past this election.

moot · « **Reply #59 on:** December 25, 2007, 02:27:11 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by cpxxx
My sister will be delighted to be described as a criminal:eek: Luckily she is now hiding out back here raising her kids. It is possible to have a social security number and be illegal by the way.

Look you cannot resolve the illegal immigrant problem by treating them as if they were murderers, rapists or thieves. Most just want to work, provide for their families, better themselves. It is insanely difficult to get a green card unless you meet certain standards or are lucky.

We're not just talking about Mexicans here. Many of you would claim Irish heritage and there was a strong tradition of emigration to the USA. No more, the only way in now is to go illegally unless you get lucky with the visa lottery or have some in demand skills. Yet those who go illegally find work, often highly paid work. The same goes for people in most other countries who wish to move to the USA. If there is work available why is it so difficult to get a green card?

Clearly the system needs reform and a good way to start is to stop the employers from hiring illegals. Then legal immigrants or Americans can get those jobs, pay taxes and contribute to the country.

Viewing illegals in simplistic terms as mere criminals contributes nothing to solving the problem.

Does your sister drive on the emergency stop lane when there's traffic jams too?