Author Topic: Illegals leaving Arizona  (Read 4207 times)

Offline Tac

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Illegals leaving Arizona
« on: December 22, 2007, 12:03:54 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/22/immigrants.leave.ap/index.html

 PHOENIX, Arizona (AP)  -- Illegal immigrants in Arizona, frustrated with a flagging economy and tough new legislation cracking down on their employers, are returning to their home countries or trying their luck in other states.


For months, immigrants have taken a wait-and-see attitude toward the state's new employer-sanctions law, which takes effect January 1. The voter-approved legislation is an attempt to lessen the economic incentive for illegal immigrants in Arizona, the busiest crossing point along the U.S.-Mexico border.

And by all appearances, it's starting to work.

"People are calling me telling me about their friend, their cousin, their neighbors -- they're moving back to Mexico," said Magdalena Schwartz, an immigrant-rights activist and pastor at a Mesa church. "They don't want to live in fear, in terror."

Martin Herrera, a 40-year-old illegal immigrant and masonry worker who lives in Camp Verde, 70 miles north of Phoenix, said he is planning to return to Mexico as soon as he ties up loose ends after living here for four years.

"I don't want to live here because of the new law and the oppressive environment," he said. "I'll be better in my country."

He called the employer-sanctions law "absurd."

"Everybody here, legally or illegally, we are part of a motor that makes this country run," Herrera said. "Once we leave, the motor is going to start to slow down."

There's no way to know how many illegal immigrants are leaving Arizona, especially now with many returning home for normal holiday visits. But economists, immigration lawyers and people who work in the immigrant community agree it's happening.

State Rep. Russell Pearce of Mesa, the author of the employer sanctions law, said his intent was to drive illegal immigrants out of Arizona.

"I'm hoping they will self-deport," Pearce said. "They broke the law. They're criminals."

Under the employer sanctions law, businesses found to have knowingly hired illegal workers will be subject to sanctions from probation to a 10-day suspension of their business licenses. A second violation would bring permanent revocation of the license.

Nancy-Jo Merritt, an immigration lawyer who primarily represents employers, said her clients already have started to fire workers who can't prove they are in the country legally.


"Workers are being fired, of course," she said. "Nobody wants to find out later on that they've got somebody working for them who's not here legally."

When immigrants don't have jobs, they don't stick around, said Dawn McLaren, a research economist at Arizona State University who specializes in illegal immigration.

She said the flagging economy, particularly in the construction industry, also is contributing to an immigrant exodus.

"As the jobs dwindle and the environment becomes more unpleasant in more ways than one, you then decide what to do, and perhaps leaving looks like a good idea," she said. "And certainly that creates a problem, because as people leave, they take the jobs they created with them."

Pearce disagreed that the Arizona economy will suffer after illegal immigrants leave, saying there will be less crime, lower taxes, less congestion, smaller classroom sizes and shorter lines in emergency rooms.

"We have a free market. It'll adjust," he said. "Americans will be much better off."

He said he's not surprised illegal immigrants are leaving the state and predicts that more will go once the employer-sanctions law takes effect next month.

"It's attrition by enforcement," he said. "As you make this an unfriendly state for lawbreakers, I'm hoping they will pick up and leave.


---------------------------------------------------------------


:aok


I predict by June of next year when it is realized just how much better off Arizona is, this law will be emulated by the other states.

Can you imagine California doing this?

Offline E25280

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Re: Illegals leaving Arizona
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2007, 12:25:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tac
I predict by June of next year when it is realized just how much better off Arizona is, this law will be emulated by the other states.  
I predict by next year, regardless of the "real" outcome, all you will hear about are the people who were "hurt" by this and how the state is suffering.

Real success does not fit the proper template for the media to report.
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Offline Bingolong

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Re: Illegals leaving Arizona
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2007, 12:41:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tac
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/22/immigrants.leave.ap/index.html

 PHOENIX, Arizona (AP)  -- Illegal immigrants in Arizona, frustrated with a flagging economy and tough new legislation cracking down on their employers, are returning to their home countries or trying their luck in other states.


For months, immigrants have taken a wait-and-see attitude toward the state's new employer-sanctions law, which takes effect January 1. The voter-approved legislation is an attempt to lessen the economic incentive for illegal immigrants in Arizona, the busiest crossing point along the U.S.-Mexico border.

And by all appearances, it's starting to work.

"People are calling me telling me about their friend, their cousin, their neighbors -- they're moving back to Mexico," said Magdalena Schwartz, an immigrant-rights activist and pastor at a Mesa church. "They don't want to live in fear, in terror."

Martin Herrera, a 40-year-old illegal immigrant and masonry worker who lives in Camp Verde, 70 miles north of Phoenix, said he is planning to return to Mexico as soon as he ties up loose ends after living here for four years.

"I don't want to live here because of the new law and the oppressive environment," he said. "I'll be better in my country."

He called the employer-sanctions law "absurd."

"Everybody here, legally or illegally, we are part of a motor that makes this country run," Herrera said. "Once we leave, the motor is going to start to slow down."

There's no way to know how many illegal immigrants are leaving Arizona, especially now with many returning home for normal holiday visits. But economists, immigration lawyers and people who work in the immigrant community agree it's happening.

State Rep. Russell Pearce of Mesa, the author of the employer sanctions law, said his intent was to drive illegal immigrants out of Arizona.

"I'm hoping they will self-deport," Pearce said. "They broke the law. They're criminals."

Under the employer sanctions law, businesses found to have knowingly hired illegal workers will be subject to sanctions from probation to a 10-day suspension of their business licenses. A second violation would bring permanent revocation of the license.

Nancy-Jo Merritt, an immigration lawyer who primarily represents employers, said her clients already have started to fire workers who can't prove they are in the country legally.


"Workers are being fired, of course," she said. "Nobody wants to find out later on that they've got somebody working for them who's not here legally."

When immigrants don't have jobs, they don't stick around, said Dawn McLaren, a research economist at Arizona State University who specializes in illegal immigration.

She said the flagging economy, particularly in the construction industry, also is contributing to an immigrant exodus.

"As the jobs dwindle and the environment becomes more unpleasant in more ways than one, you then decide what to do, and perhaps leaving looks like a good idea," she said. "And certainly that creates a problem, because as people leave, they take the jobs they created with them."

Pearce disagreed that the Arizona economy will suffer after illegal immigrants leave, saying there will be less crime, lower taxes, less congestion, smaller classroom sizes and shorter lines in emergency rooms.

"We have a free market. It'll adjust," he said. "Americans will be much better off."

He said he's not surprised illegal immigrants are leaving the state and predicts that more will go once the employer-sanctions law takes effect next month.

"It's attrition by enforcement," he said. "As you make this an unfriendly state for lawbreakers, I'm hoping they will pick up and leave.


---------------------------------------------------------------


:aok
I predict by June of next year when it is realized just how much better off Arizona is, this law will be emulated by the other states.


Can you imagine California doing this?



Fear and terror... give me a flippin break. I hope Megadelnahandsomehunk takes her church back with her when she goes too.


I hope your correct!

Offline Maverick

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Illegals leaving Arizona
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2007, 12:56:22 PM »
It was reported in the local news (Tucson) last week that the court challenge to the law was dismissed. It goes into effect on Jan. 1st.
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Offline eagl

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Illegals leaving Arizona
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2007, 01:02:52 PM »
I think Oklahoma just passed a similar law and is seeing similar results.  So far however, the only comments in the press were about some store owners who cater to illegal immigrants complaining that their customers seem to be disappearing.
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Offline Masherbrum

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Illegals leaving Arizona
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2007, 01:14:03 PM »
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Offline FrodeMk3

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Illegals leaving Arizona
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2007, 02:01:43 PM »
Quote
I predict by June of next year when it is realized just how much better off Arizona is, this law will be emulated by the other states.


That's a real good question. The power of the business' lobbyists' in California might be much greater than that of Arizona. Plus, Even with a Republican Governor, California's still primarily a Dem. state....And you can't really guess how they will vote. Then, there's the question on whether or not they would actually enforce such a law. Too many iffy's on Cali.

As far as the other states, My guess is that they will notice the influx of illegals' leaving Arizona, to try their luck in other places, and when the individual states' problems become bad enough, they will follow Arizona's example.

Offline REP0MAN

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Illegals leaving Arizona
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2007, 02:11:41 PM »
I just got back from Home Depot. There were probably 75 illegal "migrant workers" looking for work in the parking lot. They must not have gotten the memo.

Living in Phoenix, it's hard to believe that this law will have any effect on anyone. The local media is filled with stories of how the sanctions against businesses who employ illegal immigrants will be devastating and how our local economy is doomed. Never mind the fact we have to shut down major thoroughfares every other week to accommodate a march by non-citizens. Never mind the fact that our hospitals are near bankruptcy because of services that go unpaid. Never mind the fact that our auto and identity theft rates double most other states. Never mind the fact that millions of dollars of tax free income goes out in the mail to tens of thousands of illegal workers every week.

No, this law is the dooming element in the future of the Arizona economy. :rolleyes:

I'm so looking forward to watching this town get smaller in my rear view mirror on my way outta here! 28 days and counting.

:aok
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Offline bj229r

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Illegals leaving Arizona
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2007, 03:37:36 PM »
They prolly go to California, San Francisco and LA seem to be advertising for them
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Offline midnight Target

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Illegals leaving Arizona
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2007, 04:17:38 PM »
Californians will be less welcoming than you suspect. Anger over the invasion in progress is coming to a head in California as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar legislation passed in CA in the very near future.

Offline AquaShrimp

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Illegals leaving Arizona
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2007, 04:29:54 PM »
I hate burritos.  Why would anyone think that mashed up beans would be good in anything?

Offline Wolf14

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Illegals leaving Arizona
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2007, 05:13:52 PM »
Funny thing about Burritos is that was an American contribution to the Mexican food menu and its popularity has since then trickled back across the border into Mexico.

At least thats what a dude said on one of those cooking shows I have to air.

Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Re: Illegals leaving Arizona
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2007, 07:07:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by E25280
I predict by next year, regardless of the "real" outcome, all you will hear about are the people who were "hurt" by this and how the state is suffering.

Real success does not fit the proper template for the media to report.


And how will it be suffering?

The only ones who stand to gaim by illegals being here are the ones operating their business illegally.

Now their profit margins will be more in line with those who operate businesses legally.

Here in Jersey we have alot of illegals too.
I know there are alot of contractors that hire illegals.
I am not one of them.

I cant charge a penny more then the businesses who do business illegally.
The only difference between my business and theirs. besides legality.
Is how much profit the owners get.

And dont delude yourself into thinking that illegals are willing to work for alot less then citizens.
I know of alot of contractors that will tell you that while they are willing ot work for less. It isnt all that much less. Or not as much less as one would beleive.
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Offline Gunslinger

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Re: Illegals leaving Arizona
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2007, 07:33:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tac
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/22/immigrants.leave.ap/index.html

 

For months, immigrants have taken a wait-and-see attitude toward the state's new employer-sanctions law, which takes effect January 1. The voter-approved legislation is an attempt to lessen the economic incentive for illegal immigrants in Arizona, the busiest crossing point along the U.S.-Mexico border.
 


That's good news to me.  The fact that it was voted on by the people gives it that much more credibility!

Offline bj229r

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Re: Re: Illegals leaving Arizona
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2007, 08:33:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
That's good news to me.  The fact that it was voted on by the people gives it that much more credibility!

Oh really? This goes to show how important it is to keep liberal judges off the bench...as well as the idiots who appoint them (Jimma, in this case)--59% of California voted FOR this, 1 judge chits on them
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/03/19/prop.187/
Quote
 Approved by voters in 1994, the proposition would have denied health care, education and welfare benefits to illegal immigrants. Almost immediately, Judge Mariana Pfaelzer granted its opponents' request for a restraining order, which prevented it from taking effect.

In her final ruling, Pfaelzer rejected California's attempt to regulate immigration, which she said is the federal government's responsibility.

Judge Pfaelzer's ruling strikes down portions of the initiative that would have required law enforcement, teachers, social service and health care workers to verify a person's immigration status. Under Proposition 187, they would have had to report illegals to authorities and to deny them social service, health care and education benefits.

The American Civil Liberties Union's Southern California chapter was one of the five groups which sued to stop Proposition 187. In a statement, ACLU spokesman Mark Rosenbaum said Pfaelzer correctly denied California's attempt to regulate immigration.

"[It is] not a matter for individual states to attempt to formulate their own rules and procedures," Rosenbaum said. "School teachers and doctors are not substitutes for INS agents."

But California Gov. Pete Wilson, who supports Proposition 187, vowed to appeal, "so that the will of the people can be upheld."
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