Author Topic: How Hillary will pay for her universal healthcare plan (Read 3008 times)

Suave · « **Reply #75 on:** February 05, 2008, 12:34:33 PM »

Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990
A tragic consequence of people who haven't the wherewithal to be parents making babies.

Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960
Americans are fat and unhealthy and fat, a side effect of living in a society that values personal choice and liberty and the most prolific agriculture man has ever realized. See fact five.

Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.
Again, lifestyle choice. See fact five.

Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind BotswanaTwo parts. 1. Some countries for many factors merrit the administration of more types of vaccines than we in the realively immunologicaly safe temperate zone of north america need. One example of many; in some developed countries there are strains of bacteria that are deemed STDs. In the US these bacteria are rightly catagorized as natural human borne fuana. 2. It's legal to refuse vaccinations, we can not force people to recieve vaccines. We're free to make stupid decisions. So again, personal choice, liberty.

Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.
Yep, were're as fat and lazy as we want to be. A good argument against socialized medicine.

Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation
Huh. So why do you suppose we have such health problems? I mean it's basically free, especially for mothers and babies. Even if it wasn't, doctors aren't exactly strapped for cash, I've known a lot of ahole doctors but even the vast majority of them wouldn't refuse to treat somebody because of lack of money. Our hospitals are half full of people who can't pay, yet the doctors are still driving farraris, collecting race horses and ex-wifes. Heck we import people from poor countries to treat them here, and I'm not talking about illegals.
It's true. We are the most unhealthy population of any developed country in the world, by choice.
So what's your solution?

TwentyFo · « **Reply #76 on:** February 05, 2008, 12:34:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by sluggish
MT,

Do you think putting clinton (or any other gubment beaurocrat for that matter) in charge of it, forcing 100 percent compliance will fix that problem? Perhaps the problem is that gubment is already too involved.

How about this? You earmark your tax dollars to go where you want it to go. It would be nice wouldn't it? Unfortunately, that isn't how it works. You have to take the good with the bad. Further, you could quit paying taxes altogether. Unfortunately we both know what would happen if you did that.

Yeager · « **Reply #77 on:** February 05, 2008, 12:36:21 PM »

the biggest problem with american health and life expectency has been our over-indulgence in artery clogging diets. Our wealth and hunger for FAT and SUGAR and a propensity for sitting on our ever increasing buttucks is whats killing us, not our health care. Thats what works overtime to keep us rolling.

I dont buy any of those stats mt, pure rubbish. The doctors I associate with are the best in the world as far as I am concerned, and thats the only thing that counts for me.

lazs2 · « **Reply #78 on:** February 05, 2008, 02:34:49 PM »

2bighorn... I have to say... your post was the biggest bunch of soundbites and gibberish I have seen in a while.. only the young "twenty fo" comes close... what the hell is "twenty fo" anyway? is that like some less than half a 50 cent?

"Stop investing in corporate welfare" what the hell is that? aren't like 60% or more of Americans part of the corporate welfare system... owning stock and all... we get something out of healthy companies...

"Invest in people" what does that mean? does that mean you are gonna send me some money? I could use it and.. I will make it grow and make America grow... somehow.. I don't think you mean "invest in people" so much as you mean... give money to those who have no money skills and who will simply become more dependent on handouts. That is what the LBJ great society socialism has given us... more broken homes more out of wedlock babies and more poverty and more people who are here illegally.

As for the health care thing.. It can be solved... everyone can have affordable health care... maybe less than they spend on beer and ciggs.. certainly less than they spend on recreational drugs and internet and cable tv..

All we have to do is limit care and procedures to only allow things that were available in 1960. Where does it say you have a right to a bypass or even kemo or a liver or heart transplant.. where does it say you need to have all the blood workups and mri's?

Nope.. for cheap you can get a general practicioner that can set a leg and prod and poke you and take a good guess at what is wrong and what you need... If the pharmacies made the stuff in 1960.. you can buy it and use it.. the patents have long run out and you should be able to get a generic version for pennies.

lazs

Bronk · « **Reply #79 on:** February 05, 2008, 03:40:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by TwentyFo
How about this? You earmark your tax dollars to go where you want it to go. It would be nice wouldn't it? Unfortunately, that isn't how it works. You have to take the good with the bad. Further, you could quit paying taxes altogether. Unfortunately we both know what would happen if you did that.

Yea just like Soc Sec.

You give those tards $ it goes intO the general fund... then poof its gone.

Give them NOTHING.

john9001 · « **Reply #80 on:** February 05, 2008, 04:03:55 PM »

the excess SS money is invested in govt bonds, redeemable upon maturity.

2bighorn · « **Reply #81 on:** February 05, 2008, 04:18:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
2bighorn... I have to say... your post was the biggest bunch of soundbites and gibberish I have seen in a while..

Facts, Lazs, facts. Beats the hell out of your rhetorics any day.
The whole point is that health services are too expensive. Make them cheaper and we won't have to discuss universal health care, because everyone will be able to afford health insurance.

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
"Stop investing in corporate welfare" what the hell is that? aren't like 60% or more of Americans part of the corporate welfare system... owning stock and all... we get something out of healthy companies...

It means stop accommodating big corporations in a way which eliminates competition and free market.

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
"Invest in people" what does that mean? does that mean you are gonna send me some money? I could use it and.. I will make it grow and make America grow... somehow.. I don't think you mean "invest in people" so much as you mean... give money to those who have no money skills and who will simply become more dependent on handouts. That is what the LBJ great society socialism has given us... more broken homes more out of wedlock babies and more poverty and more people who are here illegally.

Who's talking about handouts? Investing in people... Creating economy where cheap imports don't drive standard of living into basement. That is, that those who work can afford some kind of health insurance, even if they just clean restrooms or picking fruits. Stuff like that...

bustr · « **Reply #82 on:** February 05, 2008, 05:10:12 PM »

Cut our coporate tax rate so corporations wont have to be bribed with corporate welfare to stay in the U.S. Get the ABA and other lawyers lobby groups out of governments pockets so frivolous medical law suites can be brought under control. The line between real tragidy and the SUPER FRIVOLOUS LAW SUITE LOTTERY has blurred health care into a money vampire feeding off those it's supposed to serve.

The high cost of health care is proportional to the number of lawyers in the U.S. needing to make a living. What are we up to in 2008, 25-75 lawyers per 3500-100,000 citizens? COPS are only 1 to 3500 citizens. We are paying for the incestuous money making love affair between lawyers organisations lobbies, insurance companies lobbies and politicians.

If you throw more money at these issues, where does it come from, and where does it dissapere to? Kind of like public shools. The more money we throw at them, the stoopider the kids get, and the more money the bueroucrats who run them still need us to give them.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #83 on:** February 05, 2008, 06:52:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
We Have the "Best Health Care in the World"!!
Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990

Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960

Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.

Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana

Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.

Ok so whats your point?

I dont remember us having a national health care system in any of the years between 1945 and 1990.

Wait!!!!
I know what your saying!!
Your saying the Clintons sabotaged our health care system when Billy boy was in orifice !!!

Ok Gotcha!

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #84 on:** February 05, 2008, 06:59:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by john9001
the excess SS money is invested in govt bonds, redeemable upon maturity.

Backed by the full faith and credit of the government of the USA. Same government that's how many trillion in debt?

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #85 on:** February 05, 2008, 07:01:57 PM »

Those of you who think the government placing price controls on medical care will work are either too young, or too stupid, or were too stoned to understand or remember how well price controls worked for gasoline under Carter.

ASTAC · « **Reply #86 on:** February 05, 2008, 07:07:23 PM »

Maybe I just don't know enough about the different health care plans that the parties have in mind...but a few questions come to mind when I think of National Healthcare..

1. Why is/should the government be responsible to make sure everyone can see a doctor. Isn't the free market system basically a "survival of the fittest" type thing anyway..so any kind of universal system goes against part of what were are founded on.

2. Why should anyone have to give up more money from their checks that are already grossly overtaxed to pay for someone else's doctor visits or surgeries?

bj229r · « **Reply #87 on:** February 05, 2008, 07:23:47 PM »

How many countries in this world have, in effect, 'nationalized' health care, and are ANY of those NOT gobbling up the GDP of their respective countries at an alarming rate?

Eagler · « **Reply #88 on:** February 05, 2008, 07:30:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by bustr
Cut our coporate tax rate so corporations wont have to be bribed with corporate welfare to stay in the U.S. Get the ABA and other lawyers lobby groups out of governments pockets so frivolous medical law suites can be brought under control. The line between real tragidy and the SUPER FRIVOLOUS LAW SUITE LOTTERY has blurred health care into a money vampire feeding off those it's supposed to serve.

The high cost of health care is proportional to the number of lawyers in the U.S. needing to make a living. What are we up to in 2008, 25-75 lawyers per 3500-100,000 citizens? COPS are only 1 to 3500 citizens. We are paying for the incestuous money making love affair between lawyers organisations lobbies, insurance companies lobbies and politicians.

If you throw more money at these issues, where does it come from, and where does it dissapere to? Kind of like public shools. The more money we throw at them, the stoopider the kids get, and the more money the bueroucrats who run them still need us to give them.

which made $400 hair edwards running on the platform that he'd fix what in the past made him millions was great SNL material...

Nashwan · « **Reply #89 on:** February 05, 2008, 08:14:35 PM »

Quote

How many countries in this world have, in effect, 'nationalized' health care,

Most first world countries have some form of "nationalised" health system.

Quote

and are ANY of those NOT gobbling up the GDP of their respective countries at an alarming rate?

Most of them have growing budgets. The OECD (30 countries in Europe, North America, Japan, New Zealand and Australia) found that health spending rose from an average of 7% of GDP in 1990 to 8.4% of GDP in 2004. The US saw the largest rises, though, up from 12% in 1990 to 15.3% in 2004.

The US spends almost twice as much as a proportion of GDP as the OECD average, and far higher than any other member state. Switzerland is second, on 11.6%, Germany third with 10.9%.

One of the features of the US system is that you have nationalised care, just like other countries. In fact, it's one of the most expensive nationalised systems, only 2 OECD countries spend a higher proportion of GDP on their nationalised health systems than the US does. What's unique about the US is that, despite costing so much, the nationalised health system is only open to a small percentage of the population. Most people in the US have to not only pay for nationalised care through their taxes, they pay again for private care they can use.