Slave Reparations

[Xargos]

I doubt Obama is dumb enough to bring up reparation, he would loose a lot of his white constituents.

[FrodeMk3]

I doubt Obama is dumb enough to bring up reparation, he would loose a lot of his white constituents.

I haven't seen where he has-This whole thread is as false as a three-dollar bill.

[LEDPIG]

exactly, Lincoln molested the constitution like none other before or since.  The civil war was over a powerful central government like we have now VS what the nation was intended to be.  Freedom for slaves, the emancipation proclaimation was issued during the war, applying only to southern slaves (A country Lincoln had no power over) in hopes of generating an uprising.

It's statements like this i was responding too. Anybody who thinks Lincoln was molesting the constitution. By drafting something into it, something that allowed people not to be beaten and hung if they didn't work for free, and to be treated like humans. Something that Lincoln should have never had to do if America had lived up to what it said in it's constitution.

Secondly, the emancipation proclamation had nothing to with slaves in the South. Only Northern slaves were considered free. Didn't have a darn difference over Southern slaves, they remained in a state of slavery.

And jeezuz if you think Lincoln did this to generate an uprising....wow. You'd probably like to see me picking your cotton right now wouldn't ya.

[Thruster]

One could have posted a thread entitled simply "Reparations" and I bet it would get plenty of action. And as for assuming my original post was less than serious, well, maybe only a little.

I'm not interested in entering into what I find an almost comical debate. That's why I took the droll approach. I don't tend to cater well to knee jerk revisionism. The context and history of the African slave trade is already out there. If one chooses to draw conclusions based on the facts that run counter to mine, so be it. We live in a world where B. Spears is a fluff'n millionaire and children starve on the streets.

[Tango]

A major part of the South's whole Economy and economic sovereignty was won on the backs of people they didn't pay for their labor. Making their trades even much more lucrative.

Losing that was not something they were prepared to do.

So if that is true, it just means that the 5% or so that owned slaves was making all the money. WHY then would the Southern white man, that doesn't have the money to own slaves, go and fight in the war?

Slavery was on the way out, If the war hadn't started, slavery would have been done away with anyway.

[moot]

Lazs, when you go to such lengths to downplay any opinion you have on race and to say "aw shucks, I don't care what color people are", it's kinda rough for everyone who knows your past to take you seriously.  This isn't a comment on what you're saying in this thread, I'm not trying to make an ad hominem, but you might consider toning down some of the fervent "we're all equal, I don't know what he's talking about" stuff if you want to keep focus on what you're saying now instead of what you used to be.

It's for the same reason I'd avoid pointing too many fingers at fat star trek nerd teenagers or Rich46yold wouldn't want to make too much of a fuss about pre-op transexuals.

Lazs just seems like he's had enough with a certain strain of BS, just like LEDPIG or others might be sick of yet other strains of BS, and over the net it'll all make for some false positives and a thread about (factualy) nothing that goes nowhere fast...  The civil war precursors would make for an interesting discussion, though.

[LEDPIG]

So if that is true, it just means that the 5% or so that owned slaves was making all the money. WHY then would the Southern white man, that doesn't have the money to own slaves, go and fight in the war?

Slavery was on the way out, If the war hadn't started, slavery would have been done away with anyway.

You do know that usually in a countries economy system, usually all of it is connected in some way. So even though you may not be a direct participant in a certain business and revenue gathering system, the failure of one can cause undue strain and stress to the whole thing and the people in said country. Thus why slave labor was a major part.

Ever hear of "The Great Depression" ?? Some people's stock crashed and everybody was screwed..

Secondly.... do you remember at all any of the racial things that were going on up untill the sixties when the civil rights movement was in full swing?

Now look at any of the clips of police sicking dogs on people, spraying them with firehoses, beating them with nightsticks as they tried to march and the general amount they tried to fight black people even drinking from the same water fountain or sitting anywhere they wanted on a stupid bus and tell me people of the South would have voluntarily ended slavery by themselves...

No really....

Come on man

Some of you folks lack of grasp of the situation is amazing....

[Xargos]

And less then 60 years ago Jews were segregated in some Northern cities.

[Pooh21]

3 generations of a welfare system I think makes it even.

[LEDPIG]

3 generations of a welfare system I think makes it even.

I guess nothing but black people are on welfare right?

[Tango]

You do know that usually in a countries economy system, usually all of it is connected in some way. So even though you may not be a direct participant in a certain business and revenue gathering system, the failure of one can cause undue strain and stress to the whole thing and the people in said country. Thus why slave labor was a major part.

Ever hear of "The Great Depression" ?? Some people's stock crashed and everybody was screwed..

Secondly.... do you remember at all any of the racial things that were going on up untill the sixties when the civil rights movement was in full swing?

Now look at any of the clips of police sicking dogs on people, spraying them with firehoses, beating them with nightsticks as they tried to march and the general amount they tried to fight black people even drinking from the same water fountain or sitting anywhere they wanted on a stupid bus and tell me people of the South would have voluntarily ended slavery by themselves...

No really....

Come on man

Some of you folks lack of grasp of the situation is amazing....

So your saying that Blacks were treated as equals in the North before during and after the Civil War? 

[LEDPIG]

So your saying that Blacks were treated as equals in the North before during and after the Civil War? 

Are you trolling?

[Chairboy]

So your saying that Blacks were treated as equals in the North before during and after the Civil War? 

By Lazs's definition, sure.  They had the same right to operate within the restrictions of their race that whites did with their race.  You aren't suggesting that they be given 'special rights' like, say, voting, are you?  That'd be a 'special right' because it's a right they didn't have under the restrictions their race required before the constitution was amended.

[dmf]

Ya know threads like this are why I even bothered to look at this message board again.

In a time when everybody is supposed to be equal,and everybody is supposed to get along, and theres not supposed to be any racial s**t anymore, why is a thread like this even popular? I don't know, maybe its me, but I don't see how anybody can analyze the past if they weren't even there. Heres a hint, the salves, salve owners,  traders, catchers, men, women, children, areALL DEAD, get a clue people ifs over, your beating a dead, the underlying reality of this thread will NEVER go away as long as its brought up day after day

[Toad]

It's statements like this i was responding too. Anybody who thinks Lincoln was molesting the constitution.

Those that have spent quite a bit of time on studying the Civil War and that pre-war era would immediately recognize that the reference here is to Lincoln's illegal suspension of habeus corpus, implementation of military tribunals for civilians, declaration of martial law and having Congressional representatives that spoke against him deported to Canada. Of course, his greatest violation of the Constitution was in using military force to keep States in the Union. In short, Lincoln ignored the Constitution to a far greater degree than any other President before or since.

the emancipation proclamation had nothing to with slaves in the South. Only Northern slaves were considered free. Didn't have a darn difference over Southern slaves, they remained in a state of slavery.

You need to brush up on the facts of the Emancipation Proclamation. It did not apply to slaves in border states fighting on the Union side; nor did it affect slaves in southern areas already under Union control. Naturally, the states in rebellion did not act on Lincoln's order, so it had no effect at all in those areas.

So, as you see, it was entirely about slaves in the South but it had no effect on slaves in the South.

By the way, for any still reading this thread the earlier thread I linked has a very good in depth discussion of the lead up to the civil war. There are many economic issues, like tariffs, that were generating much animosity between the North and the South long before Fort Sumter.

From that thread, one of my quotes:

In 1832 this very same South Carolina passed the Nullification Ordinance that declared the Federal tariff of 1828 and 1832 null and void within the state borders of South Carolina. Clearly a State's Rights issue and one that saw Federal warships off Charleston. Jackson stated that SC stood on "the brink of insurrection and treason".  Had the Civil War started then and there, it would have been irrefutably a State's Rights issue.

Those of you with an interest in a fairly extensive tour of the runup to the Civil War may want to read that thread. Be forewarned, it's long.