Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.

[AKIron]

Case in point: AKIron once heard something from someone about Reverend Jackson that he isn't sure is true but if it is he knows, for certain, that Senator Obama has probably been dishonest his entire life.

This is not even remotely approaching a sensible argument. Sorry.

Carry on. 

buzzzzzz buzzzzzzz

[Arlo]

Arlo, you dispute these widely published, sometimes by Obama himself, facts?

Close friend of Wright for 20 years; Wright as racist as Farrakhan, Obama endorsed by Farrakhan.

Presumption of racism. Guilt by association. Neither of which can be called a fact so much as your gut feeling and opinion.

Named most liberal Senator by National Journal in 2007 (How they figured the rating: http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/methodology.htm)

An opinion poll run by a political mag. Again, not a "fact" by any margin, my friend.

Close associate of Tony Resko, shady real estate deal, lied about Resko contributions to campaign.

First, your source, it's reputation as well as rationalization over the Bush campaign financing/contributions being less racist and more properly done? Thank you.

Product of the Chicago Democratic machine

He's from Chicago and he's a Democrat (and black), therefore he *must* be a dishonest racist? Ummhmmm.

Lack of any real platform other than "change we can believe in"

Again, opinion. But if that's qualification for being a racist or dishonest then our current president is both in spades (ptp).

Missed 208 of 1171 votes (18%) since Jan 6, 2005

And Mac has missed one out of three since January. Does this make him only slightly less racist or dishonest than Obama or does it somehow make them equally so?

Past cocaine user (admitted in his book)

And we know we can't elect anyone who has ever had a substance abuse problem in the past because that leads to racism. Wait ... the current potus is a dishonest racist?

What part of that sounds like anything other than the normal lying politician?

What part of that sounds like anything but your rationalization behind your opinion? Use facts to define facts.

What have you seen that makes him seem like anything other than a normal lying politician?

I'm still forming my opinion. So far yours isn't affecting mine (and you may even be as convinced that such is an impossible task, especially if you're convinced the opinions you share have always been proven facts leading to an inescapable conclusion). Our opinions may never mirror. Our methods probably won't either. And both of us may feel a genuine gladness on that. I'll just never understand the overbearing pride some exhibit in their shameful methodology used to point out the shame of another ... even if the one being pointed at had something to be ashamed of. I bet you're going to be surprised if this bit of "swiftboating" isn't as successful as the last and it actually ends up hoisted on it's own petard. *ShruG*

[Arlo]

buzzzzzz buzzzzzzz

Didn't like that one bit, I take? Feel free to point out the flaws.

[AKIron]

Didn't like that one bit, I take? Feel free to point out the flaws.

I think Toad did that more than adequately.

I'm still forming my opinion about Obama too btw. My opinion of him has gone from smart but far left socialist to not so smart far left socialist.

[Arlo]

Now, this part is inconvenient for you but all AKIron said was

"it's a lot more honest than anything Obama has probably said in his entire life"

He offered an opinion.

He certainly did NOT say

"Senator Obama has probably been dishonest his entire life."

That would be you, putting words into his mouth, creating a strawman argument.

No, it wouldn't. It can't even be whined that the restructuring changed the meaning of what he wrote. The word "probably" even left the opinion there. He said that based on a story he heard (which he admitted not even knowing if it was true or not - whether or not Toad could find a source after-the-fact ) that Senator Obama was probably less honest than Rev. Jackson in terms of racial viewpoint his entire life. I've seen better derivation of opinion ... much more fact. Now what are you gonna do with it? It sure seems the stuff your "facts" are made up of. That's just my opinion, btw.

[Arlo]

I think Toad did that more than adequately.

I'm still forming my opinion about Obama too btw. My opinion of him has gone from smart but far left socialist to not so smart far left socialist.

Which is fine. And if you weren't sharing insight on how you're forming/reforming it I might not of said a thing.

[AKIron]

No, it wouldn't. It can't even be whined that the restructuring changed the meaning of what he wrote. The word "probably" even left the opinion there. He said that based on a story he heard (which he admitted not even knowing if it was true or not - whether or not Toad could find a source after-the-fact ) that Senator Obama was probably less honest than Rev. Jackson in terms of racial viewpoint his entire life. I've seen better derivation of opinion ... much more fact. Now what are you gonna do with it? It sure seems the stuff your "facts" are made up of. That's just my opinion, btw.

I see reading comprehension isn't your forte. Oh well, you probably aren't the "typical white person" so Obama had still better be pretty worried.

[Arlo]

I see reading comprehension isn't your forte. Oh well, you probably aren't the "typical white person" so Obama had still better be pretty worried.

"I see reading compehension isn't your forte" ain't the best rebuttal but if that's all you got ....

How about another rumor you once heard but aren't entirely sure about that probably means Senator Obama has a negative trait you want him to? Or doesn't have a positive one you don't want him to?

[MiloMorai]

Presumption of racism. Guilt by association. Neither of which can be called a fact so much as your gut feeling and opinion

Old saying: where there is smoke there is usually fire.

[Arlo]

Old saying: where there is smoke there is usually fire.

New saying: Depends on who's blowing the smoke.

[BTW]

. (translation - some things are better unsaid)

[Toad]

Presumption of racism. Guilt by association. Neither of which can be called a fact so much as your gut feeling and opinion.

No, fact that he associates with a racist, has for 20 years, was married by the racist, had his children baptised by the racist, said something earlier along the lines of having the racist as an adviser.

Typical politician.

An opinion poll run by a political mag. Again, not a "fact" by any margin, my friend.

Didn't read the methodology, did you? "The most liberal senator" is an extreme position to be in. Literally. This is the man that can find the center and bring America together? The most extremely liberal Senator? Typical politician, pretending to be "mainstream" while truly occupying the extreme fringe.

Thank you.He's from Chicago and he's a Democrat (and black), therefore he *must* be a dishonest racist?

Nope, didn't say that. Said he's a product of the Chicago political machine. Name one truly stellar patriot that came from that organization. Daley Senior? Rostenkowski? Daley Junior? If you are not aware of the reputation of Chicago Democrats it's because you've chosen to ignore it.

 

And Mac has missed one out of three since January. Does this make him only slightly less racist or dishonest than Obama or does it somehow make them equally so?

You'll note I said nothing about racism in any of those points other than Wright. You keep bringing it up as a red herrring. After all, the easy dodge for anyone supporting Obama is to claim any and all opposition is racist. You're playing that as your only card. Missing votes is about missing votes. This is a politician interested in change, except he can't seem to vote on any because he's so busy. McCain is another red herring. I pointed out upthread that I view him as no better a choice than Obama. Neither will get my vote.

And we know we can't elect anyone who has ever had a substance abuse problem in the past because that leads to racism.

You really are a one-trick pony. Substance abuse is about... suprise... substance abuse. As I said, this is a typical lying politician. The drug use fits the profile.


 

I'll just never understand the overbearing pride some exhibit in their shameful methodology used to point out the shame of another

Then I guess you'll never understand yourself, will you? Review your use of the racist card in your recent reply and you're looking in the mirror.

What I said is he's a typical lying politician. I see no "change I can believe in".

Instead of tossing "racist, racist, racist" around because you can't think of any counter, I challenge you to counter my post.

Post the reasons why YOU think Obama is not just another lying politician. Give me some examples of "change I can believe in" that he's going to bring to the White House.

Go ahead; let's see what you're holding other than the racist cop-out card.

[midnight Target]

Swift boating at its best, or worst.

Here is a politician who has given us the straight poop on race relations in this Country instead of sugar coating it for the masses and you guys are blind to it. No JBA I'm still a Hillary supporter. I still think She is a better choice than Obama. That doesn't mean he didn't make a brilliant speech. Unlike the all or nothing BS of most political discussions in here, liking someones speech is not mutually exlusive to supporting another candidate.

I bet many of you with parents who were raised in the 30's and 40's or even the 50's saw racist actions from them. I bet your father Toad heard the same remark my Dad used to say when something was easy "any 3 year old ni**er aviator could do it". It was a saying brought about by the introduction of the Tuskeegee Airmen. People of my fathers generation who served in the AAC in WW2 didn't bend over backwards to accept the Tuskeegee Airmen. Race relations didn't change just because a black man flew a plane. AND I still was proud to have my father there when I was married and when by children were born. He wasn't perfect, but he was still pretty damn great.

Race is complicated and devisive and when a man of some authority tries to explain it without pandering to the black and white of it I applaude him. He tried to treat us like adults. He has said over and over that he doesn't agree with the racist rants of his pastor, or Farakhan. Not sure what else you need to hear, but I'm sure it won't be enough.   

[john9001]

obama is a typical black person.

i don't know why you people reply to arlo, i just skip over his posts. Nothing to see there move along.

[Arlo]

obama is a typical black person.

i don't know why you people reply to arlo, i just skip over his posts. Nothing to see there move along.

Yeah ... move along. Ahem.